[Sedul]

Hey yall, 'm just wonderng what are some good programs to use for 2d animating and any good techniques for the most effective, and best quality production of a 2d strip?

Need to consider this for a Creative Assigmnent at school!!

And Somethng created from the computer would be best, exported onto a video tape using a video out or something!

Thanks!

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<|--Sedul--|>
Amateur Graphix Artist

"What the hell! I don't believe ah!!"

[Sedul]

Hrm, so i bleieve anything . that supports Tweening and Vector Graphics rite?> Cause then with the vector grpahics u can adjust the joints of the characters that you are animating.

Would Adobe lllustrator have a place in 2d animation?>

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<|--Sedul--|>
Amateur Graphix Artist

"What the hell! I don't believe ah!!"

[ForgottenDavey]

Hey all, I've just started using flash5, this program kicks ass for 2d animation. Talk about easy vector graphics and motion tweening.

[egerie]

So you want Vectorial animation or 2d (traditional) animation program ?

I heard about Moho for interesting character animation in vectorial with flash output. It has bones to keep the characters on model. You can find the demo prog at www.lostmarble.com .
I haven't had time to review Swish yet but I was told it's nice for easy flash anim as well ( www.swishzone.com )

As for traditional, I know X-sheet who is vastly used for line tests. If you want to do something more advanced, you can even use Macromedia director or RetasPro for the pros.

As for transfering your stuff on tape, make sure you got a video card that can do it and has a vid output.
Hopes that helps. Cheers!

[Sedul]

Thanks for all the help hrm. I think i know where i'm heading. But say i wanna do something more than simple cartonny like 2d animation.. hrm.. but not 3d yet.. hrm.

And also, wah'ts a good technique to approach this in creating a 2d animation?

Is drawin' some concept images of scenery, and characters a good idea b4 starting a 2d animated movie on computer.

How would i draw those characters and scenerys on the computer with all da shading and everything. Take Batman the animated series for example, it doens't look too shabby

and even more advanced would be like Gundam.
Gumdan Wing, How the hell would draw something like dat on computer?



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<|--Sedul--|>
Amateur Graphix Artist

"What the hell! I don't believe ah!!"

[nightmare]

gundam wing? thats my favorite anime so far, mecha and bishonen
sorry, i haven't really got any real advice.
but if u have a tablet u can draw it on the comp
or u could draw everything on paper and scan it, then color and figure out some way to animate it...
i always wanted to do something like that, but im not good nuff ^-^;

[Sedul]

Yeh that's exactly hwat i'm thinkin'

THe best way.. and the way that cartoonists animators use, is Drawin' like stills of frames and then tween the motion in between . But i wanan do it on computer if possible. but should be close to gundam Wing quality u know what i mean?

Htose guys i think draw their stills. the important actiosn and then thorws it off to some third party animating company for them to draw in the frames in between to make everythng luk smoooth


but 'm talknia bout comptuer now.. I still a go go with the idea of drawn' on paper and scanning the stills in.. but u're not gonna draw 1000005365 frams or something. u need to draw a few and edit hte ones ni damiddle!!.


need a sound technique here. anywone?

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<|--Sedul--|>
Amateur Graphix Artist

"What the hell! I don't believe ah!!"

[kig]

GUNDAM!!! *rapture*

Right. I don't really know too much about 2d-animation. Apart from the fact that you need to draw zillions of frames. And that it takes months even with 50 guys working on it.

If you are going to create something on the same level as Gundam Wing, I wish you luck and hope you'll come back to show the results of your hard work in 2010.

[hennifer]

the first thing you should do is write a script. even if there's no dialogue and its only one scene, write out a description of what you want to happen, the kind of focus you want to have, the camera angles.. whatever. it'll really help you get a better finished product

next translate this into a storyboard. in a series of boxes a couple inches high, sketch a rough layout for each major movement. this is where you can develop a visual idea of the camera angles, characters movement, etc.

next, make a character design sheet (or model sheet) for each one showing a range of expressions & poses that the character would have in the film. this is the point where you really want to nail down the proportions, or else it will be hard to animate. the model sheet is what you go back to in the future, to check whether you're drawing the character correctly.

then for each scene, draw/paint a background. if you're going to show the same background area from several different camera angles, you may want to make a layout sketch of the whole room first, so that you can keep the contents of the room consistent in your different drawings.

if you're going to have any dialogue, consider whether you want to record it before animating, or after. studios always do the soundtrack, and then sync the animation to that, but they use log sheets to keep track of every sound for every frame. if your dialogue is pretty simple, you can probably stick it in afterwards.

and then, you animate!

this is the process that most animators would follow.

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hennifer

[Sedul]

Wow, Thanks Hennifer, that's what i wuz lukin for but then that seems so hard and a lot of werk.. It seems like u need a big ass crew to do that. U think one person can do somethign small a small thing not a big production . but still pretty slick?

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<|--Sedul--|>
Amateur Graphix Artist

"What the hell! I don't believe ah!!"

[agent44]

hennifer's right. I used to work at an animation studio and that is the process that you would normally go through. As for computer programs to use there is one called "toonz." But, its very expensive. My friend did some cool animated Vans comercials with photoshop and premere. He animated all his frames, scanned them in colored them in photoshop, and then put all the frames together in premere. Looked really sharp.

[Sedul]

I c the process here. and i'ts quite clear to me. but usually are there any part of the animation process that requires the computer?> Cuz I wanna use the computer.!

For example Gundam Wing doens't use a cmoputer rite?>... it's frame by frame but it's extremely tedious.. and requires lots of $$.

[Sedul]

Thanks Agent44 & HEnnifer and the rest of you guys for u're answers.
I think i have a better understanding of how Animation goes on.

U're frind did a Vans commrcial eh?> How long did it take him. do u mean he did every single frame.. how long wuz the commercial?. dat's crazy!. If you have a vid of this animation mbe u can post it up or soemthing.

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<|--Sedul--|>
Amateur Graphix Artist

"What the hell! I don't believe ah!!"

[hennifer]

sedul, the process sounds really work- intensive, but each step leading up to the actual animation is pretty short. aside from drawing, the most time-consuming thing is learning about the art of film-making - how to tell a story with camera angles, composition, color, movement, etc. have a look around the web if you haven't already.

if you want to save time with 2d computer animation, the best way to do it is to incorporate some vector animation, like in flash. that way, you can tweak an existing frame to animate, instead of redrawing it.

you can try animating only certain parts of a character. (like in the flintstones, when people are talking, they only animated the mouth, not the whole face) you can also re-use elements. all of these techniques save time, but they will hurt the look of your animation if you're not careful.

check out the thread that the mozer brothers posted awhile back with their pirate animation.

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hennifer

[Sedul]

cool thanks . It all seems very complicated. but i wun't know till i've tried it!

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<|--Sedul--|>
Amateur Graphix Artist

"What the hell! I don't believe ah!!"

[Sedul]

btw Agent44, I found toonz. it's by Avid Inc.. Softimage Toonz. and it wuz used by peeps who made Celebrity Deathmatchss for MTV>. lusk good.. but verrrry expensive

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<|--Sedul--|>
Amateur Graphix Artist

"What the hell! I don't believe ah!!"

[AliasMoze]

Sedul,
It seems like these guys are painting a bleak picture about how difficult traditional animation is.

But it really is time consuming. It is the opposite of fast, spontaneous art, but it must appear to be so in the final product. Tough to do when every little gesture is studied to death.

Like Hennifer said, you can reuse lots of animation, if you are doing TV or web stuff. But this process makes it neccessary do different kinds of planning earlier in production to make sure all your ducks are in a row. Basically you have to know up front what poses and body parts you'll need in what position. A good thing to do is to thumbnail all of a character's moves, just really quick 1 inch gestures. That way you can get an overhead view of what assets you'll be needing from that character and where you may be able to consolidate.

Like Hennifer said, vectors are a good way to go. Let's face it, it's impossible for one guy to do any kind of full animation of any length. So we must resort to limited animation. And vector art, like Flash, gives us a few more shortcuts. For instance, if you need a quick "squash" for a character, you can just adjust the scaling, instead of having to redraw the entire character.

Anyway, there was lots of good feedback before, so I'll shut up. If you need more help, please give us a shout here or on our forum.

[Sedul]

Hey AliasMoze. Cool thansk man. aren't u one of the moser brothers?> at that moserbrothers site.. i visitied it todya. so kewl. i like High Seas good stuff. and esepcially the frankenstein card.

how do u do that stuff. <-- wait i posted this sort of question at u're forum. go check it out!.

yeh Hennifer. seems to be tlakina bout a big production and not a one man production.
I wnat something tha'ts good but yet not as hectic.

Hmmm So how do u guys do it?> Vector wize.. Like for example High Seas.. Do you draw a bunch of frames. Scan em in .. Ink em in Illustrator.. then use flash to fill it all up use photoshop to make the backgrounds.. and then animate in flash filling in the "gaps"

Thanks for all the help everyone, All the comment/s feedback has given me a better understanding of 2d animation


oh by the way What do u think of Softimage Toonz, the program that animates 2d stuff.. uses x sheets etc.. i dont' really understand all taht stuff. but it seems to be used by big productions like for MTV Celebrity Deathmathc..
and then there are so many awesome anime productions...

I noticed that ur High Sea charaters dont' seem to have a lot of shading . it's just blocks of colours. no offense, but it seems like those other animations u see on those other sites.... Do u guys intend to make something .. more complex? or does that take alot alot alot more time..
How long did it take for the production of High sEas Part 1?

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<|--Sedul--|>
Amateur Graphix Artist

"What the hell! I don't believe ah!!"

[AliasMoze]

Hey Sedul. I guess we're crossing allot between this forum and our forum.

The shading on High Seas, or lack of, is a design choice. We do lots of work for other people; sometimes we add shading, sometimes not.

Lot of other things we've done are more complex. High Seas E1 has many weak areas in the animation that we are currently fixing up. We're also working on Episode 2. Yes, the more animation, the more expensive, because all the new art has to be animated and inked and painted.

The time it tooks for Episode 1 was about three weeks or so, which just a two-man crew. Other series work we do can take around a month for 4-5 minutes of animation, with a three man crew. The Frankenstein card you're talking about tooks me a day to do. You'll notice that there's no animation in the characters. They only slide and bounce around. It's just a matter of the needs of the cartoons. But thanks for the compliment.

To answer your question about production, we animate (limited) on animation paper. The cels are either inked by hand or scanned and inked in Illustrator. For Flash, we import in the art and color it there. Then we used Flash to do all the movements, etc. The backgrounds are done in either Flash or Photoshop.