[edible snowman]

Well, two friends of mine are starting some kind of internet business(who the hell will hire them:-) One of them is on here, i think his sn is paqman. Anyway on to the arguement. They showed me their design which consisted of a big O and some cut out pictures of a palm pilot and some other techincal items. I jokingly said i could do a better one, but i decided to actually make one anyway. When i presented it to them they said it was not at all suitable for a business for some reason http://www.geocities.com/astigma3/2sinterface.gif
I realize there's no name, thats because i dont know what it will be yet. I will put a logo in the big circle on the upper right, and i plan to put a scroll box in the middle using dhtml or flash for the content. Feel free to reply as long as you agree with me:-) If paqman sees this, maybe he will post his and we will see my superiority...( hope nobody takes this too seriously btw)

[edible snowman]

actually, now i realize i've only seen one of their designs, which sucks compared to mine i think:-) supposedly paqman has a good one but hes too "busy" to show me. maybe he'll read this. I like some comments on mine though if you have time.

[Rob M]

A circle with cutouts is certainly less imaginative than your design, but I can't make any real judgement without seeing both images.

[edible snowman]

well hmm.. they refuse to post some of theirs until tomorrow. I hope they're not too mad. I just wanted a 3rd opinion out of curiosity, when it comes down to it, both of them probably suck anyway.. i know mine does

[Paqmann]

i respond to your challenge..

here is the finished liquid oxygen web site that Eric (edible snowman) means to contend with.

Haha, puny mortal.

<scooooooore>

And, notice that ours is only 8750 bytes. Bwahaha.

http://mastauff.hypermart.net/uploads/untitled.gif

-matt

[CapnPyro]

i like the cocky snowmans better, yellow is good for advertisements to catch your attention.. on the internet you dont need to blind me, you already have my attention. maybe if that blue circle were larger and it had things stemming off of it or sumthin, i dunno.

-Capn

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http://home1.gte.net/capnpyro

[SushiMaster]

The blue one is pretty heavy for a business site, but can be passed if it's well executed (eyeballdesign at http://www.eyeballdesign.com is quite good at pulling those off... or you could do it nicely with flash). I like its colour scheme too, it's good. It needs gradients though. Perhaps the content area is a bit small, but depending on what kind of content you want to show, what kind of business page this is, it can do. It can do, for instance, as a site to present the company, to allow people to contact it, see the portfolio, etc. Not really for an actual content-based site though.

As for the yellow thingy, I'd rather not say anything. There's just no comparison. I'm sorry to say, but it sucks. a LOT.

Daniel

[newt]

Good lord - that yellow one made my six-year-old cousin run away crying.

What are you people doing?

The blue one isn't bad, but unless you're going Flash it's a hell of a big graphic.

[Paqmann]

I'm sorry I wasn't very clear with that... I was kidding. Ugh if I had truly made that.. bleagh.. ewwwww.. SOrry i thought it was SOO horrible it would be apparent that it was a joke. Our design isn't finished and i REALLy dont like posting unfinished works up here.


actually that is the VERRRrryyy basic layout but not the colors or text scheme or ANYTHIGN that we used.

-matt

[edible snowman]

well thanks for the replies, im amazed anyone somewhat agreed with me, no one ever does. I do plan to do it in flash, i almost finished it today and then my computer crashed. I hate it when that happens. I wasnt actually planning to use it for a business site, but i decided to argue the point when they said it couldnt be used for one. As capn said "cocky snowman." Sushimaster- I think some gradients might be cool to, ill experiment with that. And eyeball designs is one of my favorite web sites btw.

[edible snowman]

sorry to drag this up from the second page, but i thought it would only be fair to post his image, he wanted me to note that both of ours will probably be done in flash, and more optimized.. http://mastauff.hypermart.net/uploads/Liquid_O2.jpg
Comparisons, contrasts, tips would all be helpful for both of us.

[This message has been edited by edible snowman (edited September 26, 2000).]

[Synax]

well not to sound brash or anything, but what does all the hardware in the middle of the 'O' have to do with designing stuff? That's really my only complaint. You can't go wrong with keeping things simple, that makes it easier for the client to surf around.

--Synax

[Liquid Oxygen]

I helped design the second site, the one with the O. I don't mean to start a flame here, but, the company is not just a web site company / design. It is technical solutions, there by meaning we use all of the products in the O in our implimentation of solutions. Besides, something needed to be in the O!

[Sc00p]

I hate to break it to either of you. But everything posted here seems to be a bit cluttered, and lacking any sort of flow, and certainly do not follow the CRAP rules of design...(contrast repetition alignment proximity). Also...placing something in a layout just because "something had to be there" is a poor excuse in any sense of the word. Not to be offensive, or abbrasive, but I think perhaps you would want to work these ideas out a bit more, especially if it is going to be commercial.

Especially for a site of this demographic.

------------------
Rene Antunes
www.nytro.org
[email protected]

[Liquid Oxygen]

Sc00p~
I am by no means the artist of this company thats paqmans job, how ever i would love to learn graphics and design so could you provide specific examples of what your talking about?

Thanks Again,
Liquid



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Imagination is more important then knowledge. Knowledge is limited imagination encircles the world. ~ Albert Einstein

[amnesia]

Are you really edible?

Arn't all snowmen edible, seeing as they are made out of fine ice..

or do you mean your flavoured? Like a Slush Puppy?


Mmmm slush puppy.

[Sc00p]

I have no visuals, but I can break down those 4 design principles pretty easily:

1. Contrast - How do we make something look interesting? Contrast. Darks against light, rough against smooth, something large vs. something small. (ie: really big type vs. really small type makes each stand out on its own, because of the contrast)

2. Repetition - Notice when something such as text, or a little graphic is repeated, you can't stop looking at it? Designers do this on purpose, because repetition makes the eye constantly refer back to what they are trying to say with the design.

3. Alignment - The way things are lined up vs. the way another thing is lined up adds interest, and helps eyeflow. What's more interesting, each line of type in single file, or each line offset a little?

4. Proximity - The distance between graphical elements greatly affects what is seen first, and what is instantly deemed as most important in the design. Say we have a block of text...this is why headers have more space between it and the paragraph, instead of having the same spacing as each other line in the paragraph. It's meant to seperate the element, making it stand out, even if the font is the same size as everything else...get it?

Some of these things are things you might not notice, but thats the designer's job, get the viewer's eye around the piece in a looping pattern without them even knowing why they are looking at certain things first. It's sometimes not even something the designer notices when they work, for some it just comes naturally.

Anyway, I hope this helps at least a tiny bit :)

------------------
Rene Antunes
www.nytro.org
[email protected]

[The Dude]

Just a comment about all the designs. You
have to keep in mind the fact that most of
your clients aren't going to have huge monitors
running 1024x768 or more. You shouldn't
worry about 640x480, but you should at least
make the design fit in an 800x600 screen.

Thats my 2 bits....

BTW I really liked the one with the yellow
background, I thought it really stood out
and gave me a great idea of what the company
was all about
http://www.100megsfree.com/npak/kmckensy.jpg

[Spitfire]

Errr use the ring one and Apple will sue your asses quicker than you can spell out "Urk".

[Paqmann]

hey thanks for all the replies.. first off i'd like to say this is a concept give to me by the boss (liquidoxygen) so im a little out of my normal design field and i have no experience with center based pages. I can feel something wrong with the page but not sure what.

Synax; hmm well hardware i guess is since we do all sorts a' stuff.. have to refer to liquidoxygen on that one. But as you can probably see the site would be a bit plain w/out the hardware. suggestions, ideas?

Sc00p; hmm i've never seen it spelled out that simple.. (never taken any art classes either tho) you have books/sites to recommend? I'm working on rearrangiging stuff possibly, thanks alot.

The Dude; aweesome. what part of michigan are you from? ann arbor here. uhh yah the yellow thingy was about 5 minutes in paint, the other was a few hours in photoshop. roiiight.

Spitfire; do they really have a copyright on that kinda look even on GRAPHICS? i didnt think that was possible (obviously its a blatant rip off of apple but i liked it. Just recently Phong made a tutorial that did the same thing, doh too bad i didnt wait that O took me forrreevver)

thanks again

-matt

[Spitfire]

Well the fact that you are supplying services in the "computer" atmosphere, coupled with the hardware imagery, places you in more or less the same field as apple, and thus a good lawyer would easily rip you a new one for using their style elements (plastic stuff, that black typeface, etc.).

Im not a legal expert, i just think it's risky business.

[edible snowman]

hi again-
Amnesia- Id assume im edible but i dont know if its as good as a slushy.. mmm.... slushyy...
Scoop- thanks for spelling that out clearly, all i've ever heard about design is that it can be "anything" what a clear definition. Do you have any specific ways i could add those things, i was thinking some of them may be incorporated when i add the body of the page in the center, and the title and logo... but anything help you could give would be appreciated as i am totally amateur. I think i decided on a title though, Metaphysical productions, i love that word:-) Oh, and mine isn't at all a company site, it will just be my personal one, if i ever get a portfolio. I should probably take the company word out of that eh? I think thats about all i wanted to say, i type too much...
i wish i had a slushy.....

[Liquid Oxygen]

Hey guys~
First off I want to address the legality issues that you are presenting, while it is somewhat risky to be using commercial hardware in our image, all names and trademarks have been removed. Secondly, apple cannot own a trademark on how a letter is shaded or how you use it for anything. It would be like me saying I now own the copyright on black times new roman text and you are all infringing on it. However, more importantly after a sleepless night and a couple cups of coffee, I have worked up a modified design. I am posting it so you guys can rip it to shreds and tell me everything were doing wrong. The jpg can be seen at http://www.angelfire.com/mi/jasonsjunk/images/Liquid_O2.jpg

Thanks for you input!

Later~
Liquid Oxygen

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Imagination is more important then knowledge. Knowledge is limited imagination encircles the world. ~ Albert Einstein

[This message has been edited by Liquid Oxygen (edited September 28, 2000).]

[Spitfire]

Ofcourse apple cannot "copyright" the use of a certain typeface, but im pretty damn sure they can give you a hard time for combining serveral of their style elements into a design that represents a company not too distant from their business field. Every 1st year law school student will tell you the same. People've been sued for less.