[Rinaldo]

people are always bashing me for being all messy an stuff so I did something a bit tighter.
Damn inking your own stuff is boring. I haven't picked up a pencil in a few months so go easy on me . I'm also a bit of an amateur at the old pencil then ink thing.
I Also think This is a bit less like the style I've been getting into. the pencil fudged me a bit at first But I'm onto it now I was gonna do it with a marker sketch but I'm all out of markers. Next time I might avoid all the pencil shtuff.

I'm gonna colour it tomorow btw.

Ahem ok biiig ver is here if anyone feels inclined to do their stuff to it http://dove.net.au/~jbrasted/Riderbig.jpg

This is the pic I'm rambling on about


The initial sketch mmmmmmmmmm.... I like this one a bit better. If only I could mix the energy of the sketches with some tight B+W....It'll come with time I suppose.


Comments/crits desired and required

[doot]

teeeeach me!
Awesome..but i suck, so..

------------------
doot doot!

[Rinaldo]

doot- Whadda ya wanna know? The only advice I can give that covers all bases is draw whenever you can. And if the "whenever" is not much then make it so


edit-
Oh yeah and everyone sucks it's all relative. I suck compared to fred and a whole buch of other people. I used to suck more than I do now and I hope I'll suck a bit less tommorow

Something I often do is put the best pic I've done up somewhere. The best one I think I've done. When I first do it I Think I'll never be able to do that good again. Get some sticky tape and smack it on the wall. Then after a while I'll notice that all my stuff looks as good as that pic. I can do that good with my eyes shut! Hey I've gotten a lot better! That pic sucks compared to this pic I just did. Hey why not replace that old pic with this new one!
Repeat this until you don't suck

(You'll be there for a lifetime I imagine )

Have fun while doing all this btw

[This message has been edited by Rinaldo (edited September 25, 2000).]

[doot]

hahah, i just got some kinda..citrus fruit juice squirted in my eye..it burns..thanks for the advice though..just i have really no creative-ness in me i dont think..like i really wanna draw some kinda spaceship or airplane, but when i try...it doesnt even look close to what i wanted it to look like ya know?

thanks


------------------
doot doot!

[Loki]

Awesome, Rinaldo! More please!

[::Dino::]

Cool The inks really add something special to your work. The only problem I notice with the pic at the moment has to do with his right arm. The perspective/forshortening looks somewhat awkward. In your original sketch the right arm looks much more plausible. But other than that it seems to look A-ok (Dino=Dork )
Dino Approved

P.S. A question conceerning inks: how do u go about correcting mistake? Do use use liquid paper?? Do u just not make mistakes? What do u use for correcting errors?

------------------
O..O

[yoszi]

i like it, the first one.

[Chapel]

Looks great Rinaldo. But your right about the big difference between the inks and the sketch. What I do with my pencils is I tweak the sketch so much that all I have to do is go over the lines with ink. (not much of an inker I guess, but it works) By the way you come of the most unique little things in your pictures. Do you come up with that stuff off the top of your head or do you see something and think up ideas to change it?

By the way a few inking tips.. pick up a "french curve" and an eclipse templet. As far as making mistakes.. I try not to make them.

[This message has been edited by Chapel (edited September 25, 2000).]

[The Dude]

That is really nice, you can't get much
tighter than that!

I think I'll try to color it...

| The.Dude |

[Gecko]

Now this looks much better than anything I've seen from you, Rinaldo.

I like this style so much better than that you have on those colored pics you posted before. I think the way of coloring you've used lately makes the pics flat/cartoony, while the sketches, IMHO, needed much more realistic shading.



------------------
Gecko
[email protected]
GeckoArt.Net

[Jenn]

Mwah! Loverly.. I hope the-dude colors it and posts it soon. I was watching Soul Music - Terry Pratchet [disc world] the other night and that dwarf kinda reminds me of it.

Sorry it took so long to reply.. So much crappy art on the forum atm. Glad to see some people are pushing good stuff out.



------------------
DarkChyld

[micke]

Rinaldo, wow!

[Prometheus]

hmm , well it might sound stupid you know , but with wath kinda marker or whatever did you dran the smooth one (not the sketch) cause i'd like to use that kinda lines on my anime's I make during math(don't ask me why ), but I make them with my pencil , and I like the lines you have more then pencil lines , so please tell me

[Chapel]

I don't consider them drawing aids as in "I can't draw a curve let me use this instead" I use them to get that nice clean line on the more solid stuff. I talked to Klaus Jansen for 4 hours about my old portfolio. 2 hours of it was how to ink properly. Very interesting conversation, but he ripped me cause I wasn't using the proper "drawing aids". Really nice guy by the way.. he did the Spawn/Batman crossover art.

Oh yeah.. he wanted me to use a brush with a "nib" on it for inking. You know like the calligraphy pens. Its kinda hard though. I just don't know how to use it correctly.

[This message has been edited by Chapel (edited September 25, 2000).]

[tanis]

Hey Rinaldo!

You're getting every day better! The right arm effectively is a bit out of perspective but the overall look is good.
Your inking looses some of the dynamic found in the sketch, but I don't really know how to help you on this topic.. maybe someone could give you (and to me too) an advice..

[Chapel]

Looking at the right arm Rinaldo.. I think if you were to make the forearm a little more round it would look ok. Right now the bottom side of his forearm blends in with the bottom of his hand which throws off the perspective.

[ScoobyDoo]

Wow Rinaldo, those are great!

What size was that done at? What pen to ink?
Nib's & india ink? Rapidograph? .25? .5? smaller?

Actually Im in pretty much the exact same situation right now. Ive just done about 3 like that in the last week.
I hadn't picked up a pencil to do any sketching in months, but then, I drew some great stuff, and inked it myself.

Personally I found the ink's a little re-assuring. I was able to achieve pro results, by inking a semi-clean sketch.

As far as giving a little life to the inked version, I'd say you need to exaggerate(sp?) the pose a little bit.

------------------
Scoobydoobydooooooo!

[Frank]

Can't draw a horse head, can we? heh, just joking, I probably couldn't myself, but it looks really really nice. for some odd reason this reminds me of some of the Lord of the Rings art I checked out lately done by a friend. It's really great. I'm also interested in what you used. I have a lot of sketches around I'd love to ink (if i could find the time.) kudos.
Frank

[edible snowman]

I like it Rinaldo, thats really cool.. Its different from a lot of other art ive seen lately.
Jenn- Whats wrong with crappy art, everyone starts somewhere:-) (im trying to defend myself because i suck, see rinaldo speech for more on sucking) If he still thinks he sucks i dont think im ever going to get over it either

[Fred Flick Stone]

Rinaldo-this is pretty nice. There are two things in the image that seem a bit out of step to the way inking works, in terms of flow and reproduction.

The first would be the size of line vs. the spacing size between the lines. As of now, alot of the lines in the cod peice area, in the gloves and hands have too delicate a line for the spacing that you have assigned to the location. The reason for the lines at all in the inking style you are establishing are used for half tones and to turn the form over a rounded edge. Remember to space the lines according to the tonal quality you are looking for, and try to keep it somewhat consistent. Just like in painting, you want to keep the image down to a few values. All the half tones should represent one or two middle values, but dont go any further than that. Again, like painting, too many values will muddy a picture. In the case of the particular areas that I mentioned above, the lines are very thin and very close together, in print, they would fuse together, and turn to a black type value...or 7-9 on the valu scale, which reproduced would look like a badly filled in dark spot. On my screen they blur together. When I blow it up though, they are quite fine.

The other big thing to think about is direction of lines. The lines, or hash marks do represent change of planes, but they also represent light direction, and eye flow. You have done a great job with the inking, but in some areas, like the gloves and in that cod peice area the lines are going in all sorts of various directions, and the eye flow is broken up a bit too much. Some inkers or artists to look at for this tip are, Micheal Golden, Mark Farmers inks over Adam Hughes, Frazetta, Toth, Kevin Nowlan, Gibson, Jospeh Clement Coll...and there are others, my brain isn't recalling fast enough for my fingers...

Overall, the inking is very clean, and nicely styled. Looks like you are a Golden fan already, I love his work...

Just remember what the deliniations are for and I don't think you shall have any problem inking anything. I like your repertoire, I hate French...I like that you are trying to retain a sense of well balanced ethics in art. I see you developing at every level, and I love that. I have been after this for my entire career, if you call it that, and I highly respect those who do this too. I am stoked to see you taking on quite a task of bettering yourself. It is very inspiring to see, and keep up the great progress...

[Rinaldo]

Newt- thanks I�ll check out that site. Seen that stuff before but not the site. Looks cool

Micke-Thanks, a wow from you means a lot

Jenn- glad to be of service

Prometheus- I use a fountain pen for both the sketch and the inking. A 5H pencil for the under drawing (should have used something a bit heavier but none was to be found). This is not the best for inking but I like it because it�s easier than breaking out the calligraphy set. I would highly recommend a fountain pen for what you are describing. If you don�t know what I mean, lets see I might have a pic of it somewhere.......ah yes here we go


(had this up on my dir since a while ago when someone asked what a FP was)

It�s a Parker brand (good quality in my experience) I use Parker ink as well. All up it�s a fairly cheap solution. The pen can cost a bit (mine was $30 Australian) Make sure you get one of the newer types if you can, the mechanism is always improving. Then I pay 7 bucks for a bottle of ink and it�ll last me for a while I�d imagine. I�m sick of buying a felt tip or similar every second day. I still use other bit�s and pieces (although not for this pic), but the FP is the bread and butter of my drawing implements at the moment.

Chapel- yeah I know if it needs to be perfect I might but in this case I think some wobble works stylistically. I�ve always wanted a full set of ellipse templates but the cost a lot. When I get a job I�ll stock up on cool art supplies.
I used a nib pen for a while but it takes a lot of practice. I also found it to be messy at times. My fountain pen is clean. Heh try putting a nib pen in yer pocket
If you want to get into inking I�d imagine you�d have to learn those things tho. There are things you just can�t do with a FP or felt tip. I�d like to learn how to use a brush as well. Now that�s a task!

And thanks for he tip on the arm

[Rinaldo]

Tanis-Thanks, I might try and play with the right arm. I think he ability to capture
the life of a sketch in finished product is a skill reserved for the mighty

ScoobyDoo- Thanks. Was done on� Blue Line Comic Book Pages Pro� it says 3 ply bright white art board pg size of 11�x17� with a border image of 10�x15�. So I think it would be 10� high, nice stuff to work on. I was loath to break the packet and actually draw on one of these things But now I don�t think I�ll be drawing on much else for this kind of thing. As I said before I use a Fountian pen with black parker ink. I�ve found it to be good in that it�s pretty black and doesn�t go to pot if you paint on it. I havew a full set of rapedograph but I don�t like them for inking you have to have the pen straigh up to get a nice line and there is very little variation in line width. Besides I think they�re all cloged up because I haven�tt used them for ages
I did sorta get into the inking. Just listened to my minidisc and zoned out. The way I see it is that you can either do an under drawwing with marker and then ink. Do a drwaing with pen and then light-table it a few times until it gets all clean and nice, or do he pencil then ink thing. The pencil gives the most polished result but takes more time and is a bit more boring IMHO. I doubt I�d be able to get this result with the other techniques at the moment.
And yes exageration would probably go a long way

Frank- nah couldn�t draw a horse head to save my life. He�s not on a horse tho. Some sorta cool rider beast thing. I could have drawn it�s head but couldn�t work out a composition that made it all work. This sketch looked good so I just went with it.

edible snowman- Cheers. I don�t think there is any point where you are �good� There is always room for improvement, the search for perfection is never ending. I think even Fred would think he�s got a way to go. Maybe instead of sighting the guy next door who is a bit better than him he�s now trying to get as good as the great masters if you know what I mean. That�s what I like about drawing and art. You can do it for a lifetime and always get better. It�s an adventure.

Fred- Yes yes yes. I should have remembered all that stuff. Some interesting things I hadn�t thought of as well. Thanks. I have a crappy A4 scanner so a bit is lost in the digitalisation. I cleaned it up a bit to fill in all the areas of solid black. I�ll use a bit of brush next time to avoid all the scratchy artefacts that the FP yields for the areas of solid black. I�m just getting re-acquainted with this sort of thing. It�s a lot of fun. I don�t directly know of Golden although I might have seen his work.
Thanks so much for your kind words they mean a lot

[Rinaldo]

Had to post that in two lots. not finding the server or somehting. I also get "you have more than 8 images sory no post" or somehting sometimes. even when I've only got text.
Wtf?

[newt]

Very good - but you're absolutely right about the sketching having a bit more life. If you can capture the free linework of the sketch with the control and detail of the inkwork...

Check this guy out - same light (but accurate) inkwork with color for fun:

(Although most everyone's seen his work http://www.diterlizzi.com/

[Rinaldo]

Wow lotsa post in notalota time I like it.

Loki-more? Heh one can only draw so fast

Dino- Thanks, the arm looks a bit off now that you mention it. if the hand was bigger maybe....Idunno. It was way too long before and in my correction I may have gone a bit too far.

I try my best not to make mistakes. if I do something really stupid like wipe my hand over some wet ink or get bumped and draw a line all the way accros the page, I'll fix it in photoshop. The one thing I don't do is try and fix some big stuff up right after I've done it. This is the worst thing you can do. it's like the old snowballing thing. You'll wish you just left the darn thing be. especialy if it's late at night. Go to sleep. wake up and have a look at the problem. nothing's worse than being all stressed and angry because you just stuffed up like ten hours of carefull work. You are ten times more likely to make mistakes in this frame of mind.
But I don't think I made any mistakes in this pic. You get a lot better at controling the lines as you get more practice. I thnk I used liquid paper a while ago. it didn't really work for me. I mean it's gonna look pretty shoddy if you're looking at the original page and if you're going to scan then why not use Photoshop.
I'll often cover up little mistakes and make them into things you all think I meant to put in there but this takes practice to pull off and I stuff it up a lot of the time.

yoszi-Thanks

Chapel- I did a full pencil thing if that's what you're talking about. I first select a sketch from a bunch I did on some crappy photocopy paper and then I scan and enlarge then print. (I have an A3 printer but no Photocopier). Then I trundle over to the old light table and trace my enlarged sketch onto some nice thick comic paper. Not much because the sketch is pretty lacking in detail. then I just start to draw with a light pencil. I've become pretty good with a pen through doing all those sketches so I usuialy leave a few things for when I'm inking, otherwise I just go nuts. Having the ability and confidence to draw with the ink lets me kill that stupid pencil line that I just know is wrong. I used to be all shakey with the ink, always worried I'd stuff it up.
Most of the little things I just make up on the spot. Little bits from here and there. Sometimes it's like those little doodles you do while on the phone, other times I have to think about it and as you say see something and change it etc.

Drawing aids? Bah! I've got some FC and a circle template but I never use them. I know I should but it just takes so long. I'll get better at drawing and maybe not need them one day.

The dude- Thanks, colour away by all means

Gecko- thanks, I'm stiil playing around with the colouring. I like the cartoony look personaly but there are better options I'm sure. I'm trying to get something that suits what I'm doing.





[This message has been edited by Rinaldo (edited September 25, 2000).]

[Chapel]

I user Pigma Micron pens. Sizes .5, 01, and 05. They are waterproof. I started using those when I use to color with marker. You can tell a big difference from someone who uses a pen and someone who uses a brush. Pens make everything look more technical. While the brush is more loose. You should probably think about using the brush for your line work. It would suit your style more.

[Joachim]

still seem to amaze me. Every picture you post seem to improve so much from the last you've made. Very nice character. I haven't read what fred, etc have written, but I'm sure there's some good points for improvements, so I won't bother to try to find something to critiscize

------------------
Joachim's Place