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Loki · Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2000 10:49 am

Well, maybe it's a stupid idea, but I thoguth about this for a while:

I've been helping my girlfriend's sister with getting into Photoshop and that triggered this idea.

I want to start the 'Loki Mentorship Program' - maybe some other artists want to do that too - which means I'll be picking two artists that more or less just started out, and work with them, teach them - also learn from them. That would go over email.
By picking only two people I can be more specific and spend more time.
I know this is super-elitist, but I just want to give it a try.
The way I would pick those people is my personal preference, since I've got a specific style and also couldn't teach anyone about characters (since I suuuuuck at it).
To apply for it, give me your best shot and send me email, containing the painting you like the best.
I'll pick and let you know by email, but won't announce it on the forum, in order to stay out of trouble.

Is that a stupid idea? Maybe I should get better myself before doing that ...

Well ... lemme know. And maybe some of the real bigshots (Fred, Francis, Vebjorn, Dhabih, Joachim, Micke, Synj, etc ... )wanna do that too ... heck, I'd apply if any of you guys would offer that!

Allright - I'll duck&cover for now!

Kisses

Loki

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DigitalIllustrationOutpost - http://www.vigilante.net/~loki

CapnPyro · Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2000 10:59 am

Dammit dammit dammit! That sounds great, but my main focus is doing figures! Loki's got crazy skill if someones looking for help Id definetely email him. Good idea btw, any professional types that do alot of characters wanna give me a hand like mr. loki?

That or *cough*Liquid!*cough* any comic book colorists..

-CapnPyro-

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http://home1.gte.net/capnpyro

Rinaldo · Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2000 12:09 pm

Sounds like a good idea Loki. Not sure how it would pan out for ya tho.
The good thing about tutorials is that you can reach more people with less effort. If you made your conversations avialable to everyone it would help more people. maybe have a "loki forum" (or just a thread) where you can help some people. othere's can ask ocasional questions maybe.

I'm just thinking of that cube thread that was up recently even tho it was only spooge and a couple of other people I got soooooo much just out of listeneing to the answeres that spooge gave.

Good to see that someone's thinking about the issue and is willing to put thier time into this sort of thing. My hat goes off to you

Prometheus · member Member # Joined: 20 Sep 2000 Posts: 74

ow teach me teach me , I can draw nice things , but can't color em

email:[email protected]

AliasMoze · Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2000 12:34 pm

Sounds interesting. I believe strongly in mentoring. The problem in the forum I think is there aren't enough mentors to go around. But the lucky ones to study under you I'm sure would learn quite a bit.

If I were you, I would start with the understanding that the learners must follow instructions, no matter how very basic they may be, or else they get booted.

Otherwise, good idea. Hope it pans out.

wigin · Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2000 12:52 pm

Loki .... i would be up for it hehe... but let me get a tablet first... Its me .. i wrote you an email about 2 weeks ago...well i thinks its a terrific idea

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Webpage sucks working on it now .. nothing is there sooo be patient i will have a pic up soon

www.Wigindesign.com

SushiMaster · Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2000 1:06 pm

Loki, that's a great idea... sorry (not) to tell you, but you're not the first to have it :-) Artists have been doing that since there are artists. Mentoring is one of the most powerful forms of learning for creatives/artist types. Good thing that someone is actually willing to do this for other people, for free, like this. I congratulate you on your effort.

Let's hope the other bigwigs emulate you now :-) (another form of learning very popular amongst artists through history)

Keep it up :-)

Daniel

Frost · Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2000 1:10 pm

I'll be your guinea pig Loki. =]

29A · Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2000 1:21 pm

I think this is a great idea!

Now I just have to make a good enough drawing... :|

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Joachim · Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2000 1:26 pm

sounds smart

as people have stated though, it's good for those who participates, but less people will learn from it.
I think people could learn more from threads for learning perposes, like we've had here a few times too little. I just wish I had the teacher ability. I've tried to start a figuredrawing class-thing a few times, but most people just give comments but don't like to join in. I wish fred could have continued that great cube lesson thing which was supposed to be many steps of learning a lot of stuff.

but hey, if you also have time to give certain people special care, I can be your student in your area of exertise and you can be mine, if I have any strong areas though

soo, bottom line of what I'm trying to say, it's a very nice thought and a good idea, but there's probably better ways to reach more people with less work.

This also gives me the opportunity to say. I feel the forum has lost a bit of it's energy since spooge and fred so suddenly disappeared. I wish we could all post more for learning purposes. And, people should be better at commenting pictures not only when they can say "yeah, cool !" but actually try to help eachother to get better. It's so sad that this forum has hundreds of members, but still there's people that have tried hard to make something that still don't get any replies, even though they only wants critics that can make them better.

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Joachim's Place

newt · Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2000 1:36 pm

The conceit of artists never ceases to amaze me.

::Dino:: · Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2000 2:29 pm

I second that Joachim

I've posted 4 pics this month and all I get is 'I like it'...I think out of all the people who replied to my threads only 1 or 2 actually tried to critique them...

It's really discouraging.

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sfr · Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2000 2:50 pm

Joachim, I agree that more learning threads instead of just picture posts would be a great thing. I think the problem is that they have to be carefully planned to be any good, like you said one needs that teacher ability. For example, about that figure drawing - I probably wouldn't dare to post anything in a thread which only has the idea "post your figure drawings and let's compare them", because I've never done any figure drawing from life and I'd just get my ass kicked and that doesn't feel much like effective learning, although it can be in some cases

So it's easier to just stand back and privately examine the great stuff posted by the good ones (like you & micke & fred)...

So, learning threads should be somehow analytical, so that everyone is more on the same line. That was really a great strength of the cube and head tutorials I think. In the case of figure drawing, maybe a useful learning thread would for example be one that disregards technique and concentrates on practising some principles of simplification - what elements should you pick up from the model instantly, what kind of values are important for readability, etc.? Well, that's just the first thing that came to my mind, but I hope you see what I mean...

Saffron / Sunflower

Nex · Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2000 2:58 pm

You made a good statement Joachim.

-About the critics :
..on the other hand I get discouraged when I take the time to critique a piece and I'm either ignored because i am not as good as the posting artist or the poster is pissed off because I don't say "its great" or other are pissed off because some greenhorn post his needless babble on some forum hero.
This does not encourage to give a serious critic.

I think that I am not the only one to feel that way.

[This message has been edited by Nex (edited September 25, 2000).]

doot · Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2000 3:17 pm

i would force loki into being my mentor...by emailing him my newbie drawings and sketches...but..i dont have a scanner..so..there goes that idea hehe

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doot doot!

doot · Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2000 3:32 pm

oh, is this like.. painting school? i see i see...well then Vortx and WacoMonkey should get on here so they can start a sketching/markering school so i can join :P

seeya

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doot doot!

Gecko · Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2000 3:46 pm

I know what Nex means, although there hasn't been many of those who only expect to get positive comments on their work.

If one doesn't try fixing/changing one's pic the way other people have suggested, it kinda defeats the purpose of posting here at all.

A very efficient way (for me) has been to try until I run out of ideas/get frustrated and am ready to give up on the pic (not that I think it's bad, just that I become "blind" to it). Then I post it here, and with the comments I get from here really help me see some very obvious errors I couldn't make out on my own anymore.
And the ideas are always something I'd never have thought of myself.

So, as much as I want people to critique the pics they see here, I want them to be open minded to suggestions AND try them out even if they sounded silly. What first seems stupid can turn out to be a big leap for the artist on their way to getting better.

Giving well thought-out critique ends up making some picture better, which makes people see they didn't write their comments for nothing, this results in more serious critique and more and more pics getting better...

I'm not sure if this belongs here, this was just something Nex made me think about.

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Gecko
[email protected]
GeckoArt.Net

nori · Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2000 3:48 pm

I think this forum is too crowded to have large learning threads like fred's cube one. Maybe if dhab setup one new forum based on lessons. Then only 'mentors' would be able to start new threads with new lessons. That way the forum wont be so jammed with new topics.

maybe.. maybe not.. I dunno.. just an iea

doot · Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2000 3:55 pm

*does a vortx/wacomonkey call* lol....im bored guys..teach me

i have much to learn and you guys are the awesome-ist heheh

jasonN · Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2000 4:08 pm

I agree with Nex and Gecko. Sometimes you don't feel in a position to critique a work because of obvious reasons. Although comments like "I like it" may not be constructive, it at least lets the artist knows that his/her work is appealing and that they are on the right track. But I do agree that criticism is a vital part in an artists learning process.
I think a balance of criticism and comments is good. The problem we are having is that there are too many comments and not enough critiques.

-Jason

Loki · Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2000 5:09 pm

Jeeez - just came back from painting at home and 29 posts!
*phew*

I agree with the jist of the posts. Maybe I'll do it on a more private basis.

Now:

* forum getting too big - well yes, but I think it's still running pretty good, but it could be a problem in the near future. What to do? The obvious solution is always the most elitist one, which won't work out anyway - an 'invite only' forum, which would be sad, because there wouldn't be any 'where the f*ck did that genius/god pop up from! ohmygod is he good!'
So, what to do??? Hanging on and being brave is the only thing I can think of ...

* learning threads: are very good. my thought of a mentorship thingy (and yes, Sushimaster, I know it's nearly as old as art itself ... hrrmph!) was more meant to get more people to do it ... but I agree, it wouldn't work out ... oh well, at least I got a nice discussion going!

Oh well ...

::Dino:: · Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2000 11:02 pm

It's nice to see your willing to give your fellow artists a helping hand...but IMHO I think the idea has some major draw backs

Tutorials although quite broad in a personal sense would be the safest way to go right now unless some could come up with a better idea

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Chapel · member Member # Joined: 18 Mar 2000 Posts: 1930

"To apply for it, give me your best shot and send me email, containing the painting you like the best."

What does that mean Loki? I want a mentor.. hehe. If I could chose it would be micke though.. just cause he does the stuff I want to do.

Nightime · Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2000 11:13 pm

Hey Loki!

That is really nice of you -- "by picking the best painting you liked best" -- do you mean, one of yours? Or, one of ours?

Or both? (To get a sense of style, and technical level) Seeing I started around Spring I have still much to learn, and I've always enjoyed your landscape paintings (a subject I'm into)

Thanks!

-Nightime

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JJ / Nightime
http://members.home.net/jeremy12/web/

Loki · Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2000 11:14 pm

Chapel - it means send me an image that represent's your art the best.

Tutorials have several drawbacks too ...

Well, maybe it's a bad idea

[This message has been edited by Loki (edited September 25, 2000).]

Chapel · member Member # Joined: 18 Mar 2000 Posts: 1930

Loki don't you work for a game company? How bout you get me a job? Then I'll show you how to draw figures and you can show me how to paint. hehe

[This message has been edited by Chapel (edited September 25, 2000).]

yoszi · Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2000 11:23 pm

Damn you, now I will have to paint something. No characters, environments and hardware then ?

Alan · Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2000 11:26 pm

So... Loki, are you saying the mentor offer is over, and don't bother sending a pic to you? I would be interested, but wouldn't want to continue pestering you with e-mail attachments

-Alan

::Dino:: · Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2000 11:27 pm

Don't let my comments discourage you Loki

I'm all for helping each other out...but with
1600 or so members (although not all of them are active

) your idea could face some serious backlash

I think it would be good to start a discussional thread asking everyone to share their ideas on the subject on how we could remedy the cold, anti-social machine known only as the 'tutorial'

There must be some common ground or hybrid of
ideas that would better serve our community...Of course, It will probably involve much effort on the part of the participants to keep it running smoothly. I personally hope we could resolve this matter.
As most everyone knows...interacting with an instructor is much more effective than reading from a book

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CapnPyro · Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2000 11:36 pm

Fred's head and cube threads were very informative.. popular too! it took alot of work on his part, but thats a good way to spread your knowledge to a larger audience on this board, put out an assignement and critique and offer suggestions individually. I think Fred's probably a little preoccupied with that blonde hottie in the pink cowboy hat at the moment to get another popular thread going, loki could start one for uh.. landscapes or somethin with a neat twist. Or somethin.

-CapnPyro-

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