[DeathbyDuplicity]

I've been working on this for only about 15 mins, so far I like the way it's coming. It's supposed to be a monk or such, supposedly at the final stage of death! The thing is I started with the idea of having him kneel gainst a tomb or whatever....so what do you think? Any advice....suggestions on compisition or such? It's crap for right now!

[DeathbyDuplicity]

MaLoRuM>> Thanks alot for the input, very helpful! About the light source thing....I was experimenting a bit. I started with the light from afront but the I thought it'd be cool to do a sinister type moon or such! Most of the stuff in the pic I'm changing, like posture and yadda yadda! And I must admit the tombstone is kinda corny aye? As for the face, well I'll keep trying that blot thing....it's just hard resisting the temptation to jump into detail! When fully drawn it'll be much lighter btw. Well thanks man!

Rinaldo>> Ever hear "I'd rather die like a man, than die like a coward"? Well your concept looks cool, but I wasn't going for the "they moan, they bleed, they hold up one hand in the ski as in theater and die" type image! Yeh it's dark, but as I said the only thing that I'll keep is the face, the other stuff I just did to hint at what mood I wanted and to get advice on it! But thanks anyway.....and I'll put a little more emotion in this guy iight?



[This message has been edited by DeathbyDuplicity (edited August 27, 2000).]

[DeathbyDuplicity]

I really dun like the way I sounded on that reply to Rinaldo....so let me clarify! I really did love your take on my theme man...didn't mean to sound arrogant or ungrateful for your hidden advice! Your take was cool...and much better than mine btw...but it just wasn't the pose I was thinking. You did help alot in giving me new ideas....so even though it's a bit late...thanks man!

[corax]

yea that blood....
although its a good image!!

[MaLoRuM]

Well mr Duplicity mayan... lemme put in my two cents.

I think the image could really turn out very successful if you take into account a few things.

-where is the light comming from?
-where are the shadows?

what i think you might benefit the most from doing is not jumping right into the detail of the face (which looks really good so far!) but by first sketching out and filling in where your color values are and where the light is comming from. your picture is really dark, and im sure thats the kind of picture your looking for, but from what i see it looks like your main light source is the moon, and so that would cast light on all sorts of objects in your picture, the ruffles in his cloak, the tomb, a cast shadow on the ground etc.

if you start by defining where these shadows are and where the highlights are before you jump in and start putting details i think it'll turn out alot more successful. perhaps putting a lantern on the ground beside him would make it alot more interesting as well and create some awesome shadows and highlights! ok well i've typed too much.. but i hope it helped some!

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[Rinaldo]

The stupidly dramatic look


I'm having trouble seeing your pic becasue it's too dark. A monitor problem I know but anyway.
My pic isn't anything really I was just playing around (sorry).
Your monk seems to be taking it well btw
Whats the thing in the foreground?

Cya

[Rinaldo]

Hey thats cool DeathbyDuplicity, I totaly understood what you were going for. and I agree with you. Your image has a lot more interest that mine. I was mostly joking around. more "how about this". It's hard to understand what others are thinking in here because a lot of comunication has to do with how you say it, tone, etc. Very hard to replicate with only text (and a few pics )
I was just trying to make mine cheesy and cliche. And I take no offense whatsoever.
And I would have felt pretty much the same way if you flamed me out right for it.

's cool

[spooge demon]

Simplify, spend your time on the bigger shapes. That's were the payoff is.

Or not, depending on what you are after.

I like yours too Rinaldo. I can see the bigger shapes and they are good. The "figure ground relationship" is quite nice.

[Danny]

Good Start DbD for 15 mins! The face is looking good already.
One thing to be carefull of is the intensity of the blood you've got going there. It's glowing, almost casting light. Especially on dark murky surfaces (like the brown in your image) blood would not radiate like that.

Spooge, I have to tell ya, I like these clean sketches more than those containing your Canson-texture experiments. This is more pure and to me works much better within the digital medium. We had a discussion about this earlier today on IRC #digitalart channel. I somehow feel that mixing specific looks and feels of various paint mediums within the digital realm isn't as powerful or perhaps 'truthful' as when the individual mediums are used to their full extend completely seperate from each other. It's hard to explain, it's more of a personal feeling really. I'm sure a lot of people will not agree with me on this. That's okay ..
Anyway, what some of us were wondering was wether you apply certain techniques merely for visual appeal, or if it is more natural to you, like some sort of legacy from your days as a conventional painter, kinda like which is very evident with the work someone like Fred/Ron does.


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[spooge demon]

Very interesting, thanks for your thoughts, Danny.

You have the transcript of the chat?

I am only guessing here but what I think you are reacting to is what was the point in doing this sketch, the strength of shape.

I am not sure I buy the idea of mixing mediums is a bad thing. This image looks very much liked a gouache sketch I might have done.

I think digital/traditional is a little like when the synthesizer came out. At first everyone was attempting to duplicate acoustical instruments. Over time, it matured and became a separate mode of expression.

I think acrylic paints went through a similar phase- make it look like oils!

I think the origin or technique of the piece doesn�t have much to do with its appeal or lack of. It is the artwork itself that you either like or dislike. So if you don�t like those highly textured pieces I did, I think it is something other than mixing media. I think you are right, it is a personal feeling.

Do you find yourself liking other mixed media work? I love Bill Sienkiewicz. That is about as mixed as it gets.

When I might use a particular technique is a little random. Or I might see it in my minds eye in the �flash� I feel my approach to making images to be a little bit of anarchy, but the way I use shape to show form is very traditional. I always play with the whole process, always standing it on it�s head. My next 3d palette article will outline one approach that I worked out. The technique I think is just a way of putting down and modifying the same old shapes.

[Danny]

Spooge,

I'm sorry.. I didn't have logging enabled during the discussion.
About the monk sketch. I'm not sure it's the strength of the shapes that make me like the image more than usual. Your shapes are almost always spot on, so that can't be it. I think it definately has to do with the absense of the overlay technique. I know (I think I know) what you're trying to do by doing so.. Mimicking/emulating that lovely surface that canson papers have. However to me a lot of the images you did that contained that specific approach didn't give me that canson feel. More as if a print on the backside was shining through 'contaminating' the painting we're actually looking at. Personally I think this has strongly to do with the material used as for the texture. Large shapes in these images seem to give it away.
More subtlety, finer shapes, less contrast, maybe clipped saturation, would perhaps do it more for me.
I do agree with what you said about new artforms maturing. However I'm surprised to see how many conventional artists making the jump to digital reach for the scanner almost instantly rather than evolving their painting skills. Perhaps it's a transition phase..
I think I need to explain myself a little better when talking about mixing mediums. I do like to see work mixed, in certain situations it can be very progressive. What does bother me is mixing analogue mediums with digital. I have yet to see work that combines these two areas that would give me the same sense of awe than a non-mixed piece can do. I think it's the fact that when conventional work is integrated into a binary state it looses a sense of vitality. It starts looking harsh in a way. Shivers of horror run down my spine when I see graphite lines lingering around between someones digital paintstrokes.

I'm surprised you like Sienkiewicz. He does have an interesting body of work.
I'm a great admirer of conventional artist Patrick Woodroffe. This man does it all, very mixed. Etching, oils, pen/ink, photography, framing, pencils, embossing, gilding. He does it all and it feels so right. If there's one Artist I'd like to own an original piece of, this is the guy!

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[Sumaleth]

I was arguing on the other side from Danny when we had this discussion on IRC but Danny's suggestion than the overlay images look like there's an image on the other side of the paper contaminating the picture has really thrown me! I can't look at a Spooge sketch now without half my brain now seeing it in this manner .

I can actually see them both ways now. On one hand the overlay images have a real richness to them, an explosion of details that bring the image to life, but on the other hand it's also possible to see it as one image confusing another. Interesting.

It's all a matter of perception I guess.

I'm not really as bothered by digital art that emulates traditional mediums as the others were. Mainly because I can't really think of any digital artists who's work I really like that have a style which is -purely- "digital".

Rick Berry is about the only one I've thought of so far and his digital work is quite some distance from being attractive to me eye.

All the digital artists I admire tend to have styles that are similar to traditions techniques so I don't consider that a negative thing at all. Whatever produces a nice image.

Spooge; out of curiosity (and we wondered about this the other night), do you consciously try to emulate the look of other mediums - gouache, canson paper, airbrush, etc - or are the styles you produce digitally created free of any preconceived aims?

I actually don't see "canson" in the images Danny refers to, I see what I would almost consider to be a totally new look, perhaps even one specific to the digital medium. But thats me.

Sumaleth

[Danny]

Oops.. sorry Suma.. didn't mean to dislocate your perception on the matter..

/me discreetly withdraws..



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