[immi]

Heya

Uh, yeah, as per the subject heading, i had an idea. I was pretty excited because this is a fairly rare occurence, and usually only occurs when i've had 10 too many to drink. This is going to come out awkardly, because i don't really know what i want to say, so i'll just type.

Well, 3D Palettes coming around to reopening. Yeah, it keeps getting said, but this time, i think its close. I was wondering what people would think of a freelance sorta company being set up by us guys over at 3dp. The thing is we host a ton of good artists, and theres another megaton of good artists on this board, and while many are employed in their industry of choice, a lot are not.

It seems to me, that a lot of people have the talent to get freelance work, but they don't really know how to go about it. This is what I'm thinking. Set up a site, that caters to these people. You sign up with us and we find jobs for you. There seems to be a ton of work out there, and a lot of it would be ideal for the guys on this board. If everything was concentrated in one place, surely it would be a lot easier.

Eg. Client comes to site. They need a website. They're not exactly willing to pay top money for it, but they'll pay decently. So, we look at the people who have signed up with us, and we see joe blow has good web design skills, so we contract him to do the job. It just makes it simpler for everyone.

The thing is, i'd like to actively seek out jobs, not just have it as a drop in sort of place.

Uh, so what do people think. Is this feasible? Is this a good idea? Does anyone understand what the fuck I'm talking about? Does anyone think Gervase is a lazy ass?

[Pigeon]

Sounds like a great idea to me. Just the sort of thing I need as a skilled artist with little experience. No-one wants to hire me because I have no experience, and similarly, I don't have the know-how yet to find my ownclients

It sounds similar to other creative temp agencies like Digital People, Aquent, or Artisan Inc.
Would it be like these?

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-Pigeon
http://www.darklight.org/dunakin

[chrisk82]

Yeah, cool idea!

[immi]

Pigeon, never heard of them. They have web addresses?

[immi]

Ok, checked out www.aquent.com and yeah, thats basically what i had in mind, although perhaps not as demanding as them. What i mean is they seem like a agency for professionals. This thing I'm thinking of would be aimed more (although not exlusively) at say high school, or college students with the talent to do work, but perhaps not the experience.

I mean, a lot of companies don't want to have to spend 70 dollars an hour on a web designer, when they could have a student do it for 20 or 25 bucks an hour, and at practically the same quality. Client is happy as they've saved money, and student is happy as 20 bucks an hour is a hell of a lot more than they'd be earning working at mcdonalds during their schooling.

[Aloys Crunch]

of course it sound cool,
but, wihtout wanting to crash the atmosphere, can we ask what is going on with 3dp ? its been ages since its gone off, everyone is mad about it..Whats the deal with Frag.com ?

anyway, of course, the idea sound great. but you need people to bring it to shape, and not only gfx peoples, a project manager, two or three coders, people for the content, etc..etc.. I mean there quite a very big stuff to make here, and some great one over the bargain..

As pro webdesigner/manager I'd be glad to give a hand.

[Rinaldo]

immi-
Promising but could either become a complete failure or a success depending on it's implementation.

I like the idea of an online portfolio with an emphasis on getting freelance work. It's just like having your own website but prospective clients are more likely to visit because there are a whole bunch of possible artists. You often see shops selling the same goods all in close proximity. It makes sure that when someone wants that sort of product they will visit that area.
Often Illustrators will pay to have their work put in a huge book that is sent around to agencies that are likely to need their services. The agency (it could be a design or publishing company etc) then looks through the book when they need a particular style for a job and they contact whomever they think will be able to do the job best.
Is this what you are thinking or are you planing to take more action in the proceedings. Is the client going to interface with the artist or are you going to be a medium. There are a huge number of complications with this sort of arrangement. Are you expecting some sort of cut? I mean dealing with clients is an absolute headache.
The idea that the client can choose and browse is of considerable merit. I would much rather have someone else do a job that I can't do all that well, but I would be disappointed if I knew I could have done a better job than the person you gave it to. I'm not talking specifics here, just pointing out that if you did take an active role in the proceedings then there might be some disgruntlement on the part of particular artists.

I personally would be interested not so much in the prospect of just getting freelance work. But in the opportunity of getting some work that corresponds to what I am good at. It isn't that hard to get a truckload of hackwork in any field really, but most Commercial Artist always complain about not getting any work that they enjoy doing. I cringe every time I see something that I know I could have done better; yet the person who commissioned it didn't know I existed. Being offered something that I know someone else is going to be able to do better is also a waste of everyone�s time.
Ideally an Illustrator should be able to do any sort of work, but everyone has their speciality, that they like doing and can do well.

So yeah, I'd be interested to hear more, but like one of those pyramid schemes that promise you a fortune. I'd be very apprehensive until the details were ironed out.
I've had experience dealing with clients through someone else. Most of the time for my school, where they want it for a petty amount of money. And it can be hell. I mean, an absolute fucking nightmare, they don't know what they want. They�ve been to someone who is a "pro" and have been told to go jump in the lake because their demands are impossible. etc. etc.

I'm not trying to talk this idea down I think it's great of you to think about this sort of thing, along with doing 3Dpalette and everything.

[Brain]

I'm all for it!

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Brain
http://brain.gamekey.com/

[Christer]

Great initiative Immi!

I'm all for it, it sounds like a win-win situation to me.

What I'd like to hear more about is how you plan to categorize and manage the different artists so the prospective client can easily find the people best suitable for the job.

The Aquent site looks very professional, yet I quickly got bored with looking through countless very different artists after doing a search, many of whom didn't even have a link to their website or even any samples of work for display. Sure, reading people's 'very impressive' bios can be helpful, but a picture says more than a thousand words and if I were a client looking for a specific kind of art I would probably not want to spend too much time on that site.

Looking at all the talent found on this site, there should be more than enough material to make up a great site, as long as it's done right.

Looking forward to hear more about this idea.

-Christer

[Chapel]

I like the idea immi. However, I think Rinaldo brings up some good points. I think instead of actively looking for jobs to assign people you should let the jobs come to you. Basicly, you set up the site simular to gfxartist.net. Everyone posts there artwork and bio of sorts explaining strengths and experience. Create a message board type thing for the prospective clients. The client posts the job they need and the artists reply. (I would probably have the responses only visible to the client.) Then the client can just go through the site, look at the portfolios, and pick who they want. I'm sure this has been done before, but there are always ways to improve things.

[jasonN]

I think it sounds like a good idea. At least worth a try.

Oh and Gervase is a lazy ass! But he's the man! He gets to be on an island, on tv and do nothing at the same time! hehehe. Go Gervase!

-jason

[amnesia]

Sounds good,, I'd be interested.

Would you cater for australians? It may seem a dumb question but a lot of people seem to ignore the rest of the world in their websites and tend to only cater for their own country.

[Pigeon]

As amnesia just touched on, the international aspect may be tricky.
I think having samples of the artist's work is a great benifit over some of those other job boards I mentioned.
www.digitalpeople.net
www.artisan-inc.com (i have an interview with them tomorrow)
www.e-staff.com
www.aquent.com
www.buzzco.com

But unlike GFXartist.net, make it usable for mac-users (I don't know, maybe it's just me).
Also, those agencies cater heavily to senior web designers, and it would be nice to have more jobs for illustrators etc.

[This message has been edited by Pigeon (edited July 31, 2000).]

[Joachim]

Immi,

Good idea, unfortunately I will probably never have the time to do anything more freelance. But, I'm sure there's a lot of guys who wants to.

But, what I really was going to say. Since that post-app picture competition ended in such a tragic "death", with 3dp going down and all....and, even though you will announce winners and things on your site when it's up, it has been way to long since the compo and I don't think there will be such a big blast around it anymore.
How would you and everybody feel about if you tried to do yet another new compo with a new topic. It's such a fun thing to participate in. The way it get so many artists to make a picture over the same theme. And this time, the results and pictures and talk will be right after the deadline, not 2-3 months after A nice way to revive your site.

whatcha think Immi ?

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Joachim
web:
http://home.online.no/~j-barrum/

[immi]

Hey guys, thanks for the great response. I wish i could give specific details, but I don't know them myself. I like this idea though, and I reckon it could succeed. Do i know what I'm doing? Nope. But did we know what we were doing with 3dpalette? nope, but before we went down, we were doubling in size every 2 or 3 months.

The great thing is the web is changing all the rules. There are no rules in fact. Thats what i loved about working with flasher on 3dpalette. We were just two kids, and although it had been up for awhile, and had been growing steadily, once we put our butts into gear, things happened.

What I'm thinking is initially set up a page with say a core group of 5 to 10 people. Have a few illustrators, a few 3d people, a few web designers etc etc. I'll give an example of what I'd like to do. Lets take someone like Christer. Incredible talent, and an awesome style. Lives in Europe, so does not get great exposure in the big north american markets. To me, Christer's artwork would be perfectly suited to a games magazine cover. So...knowing nothing about how the whole process works for magazine covers, but assuming its a fair bit of money...I'll call them up, I'll speak to people who've done covers, i'll e-mail the magazines. I'll find out how its done. A lot of artists don't like doing this. Its intimadating, its scary. You get rejected you feel bad. But man, i love this shit!

Then if all goes well, Christer gets a nice little games magazine cover to do. Hopefully this leads to more. I dunno, this is just what i'd imagine. As i said, i don't know how it works. But, man, anyone can learn. The great thing is, we can use 3dpalette, skindom, and tutorial armory as exposure.

I don't really want to create a job board. I sorta like taking a more active role in stuff. As to whether I'd be taking a cut. Yeah. How much? Fakk, i dunno. What is fair? 80/20 split? 50/50? 90/10? I don't know. You tell me. But, I'm realising i love the entrepreneurial side of stuff. Sure, i want to make money, but i want to be fair. And yeah, i want it to be a global thing. With the web, theres no reason why it has to be restricted to NA. Although perhaps no australians.


3D Palette:

Went down almost 3 months ago. Scary huh? May 5 i think. I'm sure most people know the story of why it went down. If you don't, ask, ill reiterate again.

We SHOULD be back up soon. Most of the content is up, although not accessible to the public. Previous POTD's are all gone. Programming is done (had to be redone.) All that we're waiting for is some piece of perl script to be completed by our hosts gamedev...who seem to be taking for fakkin ever. ARE THERE ANY GOOD HOSTS OUT THERE?

Once, its done, we're up. I heard from Spooge the other day about doing a column. I was speaking to Fred awhile back about putting all his tutorials up. Perhaps new ones too? I'd like to get Samdragon's (? i think it was him) composition pieces up, if he's willing. We're interested in printing up Spooge or Vebjorn posters, if theres demand. Both artists are interested in that. It would be an investment on our parts though, so we'd have to be sure. I've been wanting to do a piece for ages on conceptual art for games. It fascinates me. A big piece on it.

As for the contest. Yeah, i should have put up the results sooner. Because 3dp is almost up, i keep hanging off, but the longer it drags on, the more blah it gets.

You're right Joachim...it was a big tragedy. A huge anticlimax to the whole thing. Crapola. I'd love to do another contest. Any ideas for themes? Just gotta scare up some sponsors i guess. (kinda hard when theres no site)
We could probably run a contest without prizes, but its so much nicer when there are right? Gives something to strive for.

Jeez, thats enough writing. I'm turning into Fred.

[Christer]

Thanks a lot for your compliments Immi, I really appreciate your support.

I hope this idea gets realised, and I think it's great that you're willing to put up the time and effort to help artists out there get this kind of exposure.

Like Joachim mentioned, there's a lot of people with very demanding jobs which take up most of their time. I too find it hard sometimes just to sit down and work on personal stuff after a day at work.. The ideas are in there but you don't have the extra energy to let them come to life. But other days you're just so inspired you end up working away at something all night long.

I would be very interested in doing the odd job now and then if it seemed like fun, and I'm sure many others would be too. Not so much for the money but rather doing something different from the daily 'routine'..


-Christer

[above]

So basically you're saying that you're an agent for artist???? Like in sports or acting....

[Aloys Crunch]

That preciselt the whole problem,
3dp was very community oriented, which is good but not enough for people wiling to get pro. experience. On the other side there are lots of site specialised like aquent.com , so you have to find your niche. keeping in mind that making something community oriented is easier, cooler, maybe less rewarding money speaking; but you know this already.

There peole ready to jump in; It's up to you.

[immi]

I don't think agent would be the right word....well, maybe like a jerry maguireish agent...i'll be very nice. We can hug and stuff.

Um, a little while longer, i'll set up some stuff, and we'll give it a trial run. Get everyone's input on it.

BTW, christer. Man, your stuff rocks. Your entry to the post apoc contest has been mym desktop image for a looooong time now.

[This message has been edited by immi (edited July 31, 2000).]

[AprilYSH]

re 3dp:

hang on, does this mean i missed the announcement of the winners of the 3dp character design contest or it's waiting for the site to go up?

will the winners still have compatible systems for the prizes by the time they get them?

re new idea:

would this be a site for jobseekers to pick and choose employers or for employers to pick and choose a jobseeker? would it just be a collection of people's portfolios they can update themselves? and the "cut", if any, should be arranged with the employer not the jobseeker - that stuff should be transparent to the jobseeker... jmo

it would be a bad idea to cut out australians.

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April http://april.cjb.net