[WacoMonkey]

An interesting thread about what concept artists make started on an earlier post, but since it was off-topic and I thought it was pretty important, I thought I'd start a new thread about it here. I'll copy-paste the original question and earlier responses here (I don't know how to quote into a new thread), but I think it would be interesting to hear other people's experience, particularily those who have been in the industry for awhile.

Original post by dr . bang
Member posted July 25, 2000 12:50 PM

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Spooge, you are a god and i want to be your neighborhood! This may be a stupid question but I was wondering how much your income is? Over 50k? You don't have to answer this question if you don't feel like it

Response by TJFrame
Junior Member posted July 25, 2000 11:06 PM
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The the guy who asked if Mullens makes over 50K?
Of course I can't speak for Mr. Mullens...
but you gotta be kidding me!!!? Every concept artist in my own personal sphere of friends makes from 70 to 120,000 per year or more depeding on if they are freelancing or full-time, etc. And we are a bunch of unknowns! Someone like Mullens with an agent like re:sources who does so much film work so often is doing VERY well I would imagine. But of course I don't speak for him in any way shape or form.

From what I've heard, some concept guys out there might be slaving away for like 30,000 or something like that.. but when you start talking agents and steady film work and well known reputation like a Craig Mullens then that's another matter altogether. The only exception I can think of to this is working for ILM/Lucas. They are known to be quite "frugal" with their money.

-TJ

response by WacoMonkey
Junior Member posted July 30, 2000 02:39 PM
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On the salary question: depends on the industry, your experience, and where you are. In general film work pays more than video game work, and you can usually make a lot more in LA than you can elsewhere, because the expectations and cost of living are higher. If you are prolific, well known and can round up constant work, you can definitely make in the six figures as a freelancer. Freelance hourly rates are a lot higher than full-time, and contract work can pay more than double annually what a full time salary might be, but it's up to you to always have work. Only the best (like Craig, I'm sure) have work pretty much come to them, the rest mostly have to struggle to keep work coming in, and it goes in waves - more work than you can handle, then worrying down time when the industry seems dead. Average rates for top-notch, experienced designers (excepting the 'name' designers like Mead, Cobb, etc. who can name their price) is around 3K to 4K a week.
As for in-house jobs, there are more in the game industry, which doesn't work as much on contract basis than movies. There's a lot more job security and benefits, but you'll make a lot less. Starting salaries for designers can range from the high 30's to the low 50's, depending on what the local market and cost of living will bear. Don't expect to be making over 70K unless you're coming in as an experienced art director, or unless you're hired by a small .com start-up that just got a huge influx of venture capital. In which case - get while the getting is good, and keep a parachute handy! The industry also goes in waves, usually tied to some boom, like computer graphics in film. In the mid -90's computer animators were highly sought after and any idiot right out of school who could make a chrome cube in Alias was making 80K. Then the industry went bust, and big companies like Warner Digital went under from over-spending. Salaries leveled out. The games industry is currenlty undergoing a similar boom with new platforms like PS2 and X-BOX demanding more intensive graphics. the high salaries are mostly in high-end programming and character animation, but there is some trickle-down where every kind of artist, including designers are more in demand as well.

Anyway, don't want to be a downer after TJ's optomistic assessment, but I don't want people to have unrealistic expectations of the industry and be disappointed.




[This message has been edited by WacoMonkey (edited July 30, 2000).]

[TJFrame]

Good points WacoMonkey.

As I mentioned in my posts. I was not attempting to speak for the entire spectrum of designers. Of course a guy working for some small game company in Iowa is not going to be making what an established designer in La makes for freelancing in film. There will be a huge discrepancy between the two ends of the spectrum. Again, I can only speak for myself and a my own circle of friends and aquintances who, by the way, mostly do in fact freelance.

Anyway, I would like to address a larger issue relating to salaries. It seems like a general perception towards arists is that what they do is somehow not as valuable or impoprtant in the creative/production process as other disciplines. I see it all the time in the form of lower salaries and general lack of respect. I'm sure we have all known people who have asked us to draw them a picture for little or nothing (perhaps just the cost of supplies). After all, "its just drawing" As if you'd go up to an accountant and ask him to do your taxes as a favor

Perhaps because it is accessable and everyone can dabble in art or perhaps because so many artist-types are content to work for little or no money and are glad to have the chance get paid at all for "something I'd be doing anyway", the end result is artists often demand and get lower salaries than they might deserve.

But art and design can often be a critical factor in the success of a product. For example, look at the comic book industry in the early 90s. When Marvel failed to supply the then hot new artists like Jim lee and Todd Mcfarland with enough moolah and creative freedom, they bailed Marvel and sarted Image. This move (among others) nearly destroyed Marvel for a time. The point was that it wasnt so much the chracters or the writers who were responsible for the fan base as much as it was the hot artists who had created legions of loyal fan-boys who followed them regardless of the title they worked on. Things have normalized a bit since then, but you get the point.

I would emplore young artists out there not to be so eager to work for free. What we do is valid and an important part of the production process. Every time an artist works for less than he/she is worth, it helps devalue the perception/prestige of all the rest of us. This point was really stressed at Art Center - don't let people take advantage of the fact that we love to do what we do. It's not our fault that it's fun!

Id love to hear other people's own experiences and or opinions on this issue.

-TJ

[Frost]

Interesting thread. Too bad people always keep mispelling Craig's last name...

[egerie]

Uuum hello I've been reading this forum for quite a while now and thought I'd finally drop a couple of cents here.. Excuse in advance any english gramar/spelling errors ; you can snail-mail dictionnaries or english 101 methods if you can afford the stamps

This may seem a bit off topic as I'll be talking of the cartooning industry and not concept artists, but TJ's post reminded me of something.
Yes some artists are devaluating the market by -ahem- 'whoring' their way around. This fellow animator who was, I beleive, pretty talented came in and said "Oh but I'll work at the minimum wage if I have to, but let me get the job !". And no, this was no joke nor sarcasm.. I was a bit horrified upon hearing this but realised this guy was desperate for a first work experience. (that nearly came out wrong )

I think self confidence is crutial even if you're getting on the marquet. On the other hand, one has to stay humble and not go overboard at any cost !!
Artists usually know what they're worth. Personally I got into arts for the love of it not really knowing you could live from it, and with a bit of luck and hard work live pretty well too..
Of course it's intimidating and I used to feel a bit guilty asking for higher wages upon doing something I was enjoying so much ! After all, what human being pretending to be sane can look forward to Mondays ?? Job aren't supposed to be fun ! It should be hard, straining and nerver wrecking ! *That* makes your income worthy !...

Seriously now, I think the best thing is to lift your nose from your sketchbook, look around and ask questions without being afraid to seem nosey (let's stay diplomatic ). It's sometimes difficult for juniors to score their work and scale themselves in a unbiaised way when it comes to put a price tag on their talent. Don't under-estimate yourself nor highjack the market with your decision.

ege, who's a bit nervous about her first impression..

P.S.: How can you guys go tru all the 3000 daily posts here ?

[TJFrame]

Yea... I meant "MULLINS" not "MULLENS". oops

-TJ