[Digital Genesis]

Hi,

On hindsight, no matter what Christer may or may not have done, I am in the wrong for the way I dealt with it.

Instead of plastering my find all over, I should have approached him myself and simply asked to my concerns.
Depending on the answer further recourse could be taken of course, but I regret the way I put him on display without even trying to figure out things on my own.

So, here on the board, I officially apologise to Christer Sveen.


I learnt today, by observation of my own actions. Isn't that what being an artist is all about?

By officially stating this, I'm hoping others will avoid doing the mistake I did.

The last thing I want is to fuel other people's aggressions. *sigh*
Something I realised a little to late.

Fortunately, Christer managed to ward off a barage of flames, by way of his own intelligent reply to the situation.


Sincerely,

DG

[immi]

I commend you DG for your apology, because I do think it is deserved; I believe you were totally in the wrong and you opened up Christer to attack in the process. Personally, I think Christer showed tremendous restrain by responding the way he did...I would have been completely happy if he had told the people who posted in the thread to shove it up their asses.

The thing that disturbs me is the pack mentality that followed your accusation. It seems people enjoy witch-hunting, and are happy to make misinformed judgements without checking the facts. OOh look...he copied something...lets all jump on the bandwagon and tell him how naughty he is. I am totally confused by the beliefs of some of you that to copy something, or imitate it is some mortal sin against the art world.

Sure, there are definate cases of plagiarism and I'm not campaining for them and they should not be tolerated but I think most people possess the intelligence to recognise these cases. I would hope so at least. Anyways, I'm digressing.

What galls me in particular is the statement by Eyefool : "If you make original work then you are an artist. If you make drawings of original drawings then you are no better than a laser copy machine."

I'm sorry, but this pisses me off to no end. I wish I had on hand right now, an excellent article written by Danny Geurtsen, in which he explains the reasons behind him leaving the demo scene. Unfortunately, 3dpalette is down, and I can't access it, but it outlines much better than I could, why mimicking, and copying other artists work is indeed a good thing, and at the very least beneficial.

I think reading it would go a long way to educating and enlightening some of you...Eyefool. Seriously, your sputtered rhetoric is ridiculous. It is a statement of an amateur (don't get me wrong, I'm right there with you) that has yet to understand that artists are constantly in the process of learning, and copying a famous artists work, is one of the best ways of learning. Case in point, Eyefool, compare your entry in the post apocalyptic contest to Christers, and ask yourself who has the better understanding of art?

I'm going off on different tangents, but my main point is, I think Christers use of that cat is perfectly acceptable, and that the attacking of him for it, is perfectly unacceptable. Get a grip guys! I'm not trying to make enemies, but I feel I owe Christer some support. His artwork should be all the proof you guys need that this guy is not a fraud.

[Cos]

Altho I think Immi is a donkey's testicles sucking dangleberry eating arsewipe
with a thing for bald musclebound bigmen, I am inclined to agree with him on this.
Christer has already proved himself to be an excellent artist in my eye's, his 3dp
compentry was amazing, and his new conan piece only concludes on what I thought.
There is nothing wrong with copying other artist's work as it can definetely help
with improving on your skills, as long as you are not trying to pass it on as your
own then whats the problem. Christer using it as the pic on his logo wasn't really
the best of choices, and I do think the new work he has been doing is a dramatic
improvement, and he is obviously not trying to hide anything as he posted the
original painting and all, so give him a break, the guy is an excellent artist so
he's definetely doing something right. Christer, I look forward to seeing more
of your work in future.

[This message has been edited by Cos (edited May 08, 2000).]

[Hurri-cane]

i agree...this sure sound browny nosy...but it isnt..(feels like it but it isn�t) of course he his an very good artist, u can see that on his man�r (dont know the english word for it). he is not a "copy machine".
My teachers wanted me to learn by looking at other famous artists and use their work as a guide, and when i started to paint (from the beginning) i often copyed peoples art, never published it but...its hard to learn when u dont have anyone to learn from...




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-H-U-R-R-I-C-A-N-E-
http://www.geocities.com/hurri_cane_1999/
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[jasonN]

Uhhh. Did I miss something?

[EyeFool]

Hmm...now I am the one being attacked

Immi, you really should read into things more before you go accusing me of slandering Chris. Chris is a great artist and I love his work. My post was not directed at Chris, I realize now that I made the mistake of posting it in the same thread. And I apologize to Chris if it came off that way. I am talking about people who copy other artwork and clame it as there own. I am sorry if you disagree with me about plagarism, I think copying someone elses artwork it 100% plain wrong. As far as learning from other people's artwork, im totally fine with that, Immi. But you must realize, Immi, is that there is a difference between learning from someone's technique and copying an image that someone else has created. For example the people who take Dhab's pictures and change them and claim them as there own.
If you guys support that kind of 'art' then I disagree with you.

Immi, I am sorry if I've angered you by speaking out against plagarists. But I believe copying artwork is wrong and I will continue to stick to that belief. Once again you must realize that my post was directed towards plagarists. Plagarists are people who copy other people's images and claim them as there own ORIGINAL work. Chris clearly never did this. Please do not twist my words and post messages flamming me Immi.

...And I do believe that plagarists are Human copy machines. If you cannot come up with an original thought then what are you?

[Tinusch]

Well, EyeFool, I don't wanna try and argue with you because I absolutely love your pics, but I just want to throw in my 2 cents. If you are a plagiarist, then yes, I can see how you could rightly be viewed as no better than a copy machine. But what Christer did wasn't plagiarism, technically. Sure, he did use someone else's art as a reference for the form of an animal in his own pic, he in no way plagiarized. His pic was very much different from the one he used for reference. And he even freely admitted it when asked about it, explaining honestly what he did. I really don't think he did anything wrong. Sure, maybe giving credit to the original artist would have been appropriate, but his image was different enough to be considered his own, and the fact that he openly admitted he used a reference is even more evidence to his innocence.

Please don't hate me, I love your art too much to be looked upon unfavorably by you...

[Tinusch]

...But only after posting his feedback did Tinusch read Eyefool's entire message. It was then that Tinusch realized he had made a horrible mistake in his feedback... EyeFool slowly turns toward Tinusch, flashes him a murderous glare, and begins advancing toward him, preparing to teach him a lesson about posting feedback before reading the preceding messages...

[Cos]

KEEL HEEM

[A.Buttle]

But Tinusch, I think that Eyefool has the same lesson to learn. He CLEARLY didn't read what immi wrote, for had he, he would not have said some of the things he did. Nowhere does he justify plagiarism, indeed, he even said "Sure, there are definate cases of plagiarism and I'm not campaining for them and they should not be tolerated but I think most people possess the intelligence to recognise these cases."

I'm not usually one to get involved in these little bitch fights that break out at what seems to be an increasing rate, but at this junction you are just plain wrong. There is nothing wrong with copying someone's painting. The fault lies in the inherent dishonesty of then claiming that it is your own original work. Artists for thousands of years have learned from copying the styles of those great artists that preceeded them and thus learning their own style. Do you think that Michelangelo learned how to paint off the top of his head or logged into the internet to find a tutorial? No, he spent years as an artist's apprentice copying other artwork and doing studies from classical Greek and Roman sculptures. Or Picasso, do you think he just sat down and said "Man, I'd love to paint in cubes..."? No, first he had to become an extraordinary draftsman which was only accomplished by copying the wrok of the Renaissance masters. The same can be said about hundreds of other artists, whose work can now be found in places like the Guggenheim and the Louvre.

So this lengthy post all boils down to one suggestion for EVERYONE: have the brain to know what you're talking about BEFORE you say it and don't get so offended.

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And remember, gravity is not your friend!

Joe Dillingham
[email protected]

[A.Buttle]

God damn it. I hate when I don't take my own advice.

------------------
And remember, gravity is not your friend!

Joe Dillingham
[email protected]

[immi]

I just have one thing to say: whats a dangleberry?

[Tinusch]

You tell us.

[immi]

I don't know honestly, there are limits to even my pommie vocabulary. Perhaps, the two incestuous brothers Kyri and Cos can enlighten us? My guess is it would be some derogatory term...?

BTW, surely I'm not the only one who finds bald musclebound bigmen strangely appealing?

[Cos]

It's the little bit of scum that hang off the hairs inside your arse, and in your case Immi, inbetween your teeth too.

[immi]

I was wondering what those things were in my teeth!!!