[Spitfire]

Ahh.. everyone go out and buy "The Opposite of December" by Poisonthewell. This is sheer beauty. *goes insane*

[Brishen]

And if I don't???

[Spitfire]

Then you'll never know how truly impressive and beautiful music can be

[el tigre]

I'll buy it if.....


....you look on e-bay and buy either "Consider Phlebus" or "Use of Weapons" by Iain M Banks. Deal?

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Does anyone know the secret formula? :�

[Spitfire]

I intent to read those, my Scottish friend. Even if i have to kill people for it. Iain Banks = God.

[el tigre]

he just released a new one a couple of days ago, "Look to Windward". My eyes are dreading the day I get my hands on it

------------------
Does anyone know the secret formula? :�

[DaveT]

Word up everybody. All you people out there in Edinburgh should know that soon Ian Banks will be at the Gyle for book signing.

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I have a plan so cunning you could stick a tail on it and call it a weasel....http://www.stas.net/dfb

[el tigre]

WHEN???

[Spitfire]

Not exactly my neighbourhood. heh.

[Isric]

" This is sheer beauty. *goes insane* "

you said. I listened to it and I say NO ONE ELSE listen to this crap.
If this is beauty, Adolph Hitler was a prince and savior among men.

THAT MUSIC IS DUNG. no...Dung is to mellow. If I were to bathe two fagots in dung, set them on fire, and send them flying of a cliff while having heaving, grunting man sex, until exploding to the ground with a horrendous water melon burst, then be forced to eat whatever is left, I would still find THAT more apealing than that music.

Thats all i have to say about that.

[Spitfire]

You are obviously a homophobic, culturally illiterate, close-minded redneck. Go listen to Britney Spears and hunt some possums.

[mantis]

I hate it when people try to force their musical taste on you. Spitfire wouldn't it have been more subtle way to deal with the situation by offering us an mp3 link and telling us to check out a good band?

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Arpan . B
[email protected]
www.liquid2k.com/koma
Highroller Studios

[Spitfire]

Hey, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I just didnt like the overly creative way Mr.Isric put it.

Let me rephrase my original post :

If you are into real music made by people and not by managers, if you like to read a bands lyrics because you might actually learn from them, if you like music to be a means of personal expression and not a commercial product, if you like music made by people that will sleep over at your house and love you for it because their label didnt give em any money for the tour, if you like music made by people who make less money than your folks but keep making music because they have something to say and love music, THEN you might like Poisonthewell.

Oh and you arent afraid of bands that prefer a bass, 2 guitars, a drumkit and a real vocalist instead of a hired gospel choir, a drum machine and 5 synthesizers.

Edit : really dumbass typo.

[This message has been edited by Spitfire (edited August 25, 2000).]

[FaithInChaos]

hows it going? i dont know any of you but

i just like to point out, all music is "real" music. that song you hear on the radio 24 hours a day 7 days a week, that song is "real" music. hippies beating on garbage cans and making messed up noises with their nasal passage ways, that is "real" music. just because you happen to dislike it, it doesnt make it un-real or fake music.

maybe im missing something but; i listen to music because i like the muisc (the way it sounds,) for most people i think they dont care about the artists personal beliefes, they listen to it cause they enjoy it. i could care less if the artist is poor and hungry, if anything it tells me that their album is going to sound like crap because they couldnt pay for a good recording.

if i want to read poetry ill read poetry, if i want to hear someone rant and rave ill watch public t.v. but i will not sit around and let someone try to tell me this music is "real" or fake because it has a message or it uses a choir or because who ever it is just doesnt understand everyone has different tastes in music.

[mantis]

Considering that I ws recently earfucked by those horrible mp3s I downloaded, following spitfire's instructions, I have decided to add my own recomendations.

A few excellent songs I have recently got hold of.

1. Paul Van Dyk - Binary Finary

2. Bjork - Joga

3. Stabbing Westward - Torn Apart (wink mix)

4. Bjork - All is full of love - Plad Mix

5. NIN - La Mer

6. Paul Van Dyk - Forbidden Fruit (East of Eden edit)

Thats all for now. . . for those who are NOT interested in electronic music, I would stay away from the songs mentioned above. Those who are interested, find a means to *get* the songs, very good listening, I guarentee.

------------------
Arpan . B
[email protected]
www.liquid2k.com/koma
Highroller Studios

[Spitfire]

You misunderstood me. My point is that most modern music these days merely is the product of a bunch of managers and 12 advertisement companies. I have worked for several 'major'labels (Sony Europe for example) as well as for really small ones and i know the difference between "real" music (made with the heart, made because of a love for music) and "fake" music (made with a Marketing Concept, made because of a hunger for money).

Real : poisonthewell.
Fake : everything on MTV.

The problem is, nowadays most people dont know anything besides the MTV crap, therefore they think its the only kind of music in existance and therefore the standard by which everything else is judged.

[Affected]

Hm, I downloaded "Paper", and didn't like it at first.. Now I listened to it again and it sounded interesting enough. Still, it's not good to make any judgements based on one track.

Too bad I probably can't find it in Finland.

[Spitfire]

Slice paper wrists. Yeah that's a nice song, though not as good as some of the little gems on that CD. It really takes some time to get used to...

[ex]

I'm sorry i havent found this thread earlier. If anyone is interestred in my two cents; .

Unfornitualy the generation today is a generation of pop. Growing up to the radio and MTV. They pick the songs out of there that they like and have their very shallow limitation to musical varities. Most people stereotype the other types of music because it hasent been heard on tv or the radio yet, and are too ignorant to try new things. Thats ok, but for the people that are not like that, and know the beauty of individuality, the musical variety is completly endless... these people know what music really is.

To each his own.

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-- Sean FitzGerald (ex)

[Isric]

Heheh, I had no idea it would cause such a stir. I feed off of controversy you see, I love the stuff. So I appologise for stepping on any of your toes.


In defense of Spitfires comments:
No I'm not, but I can see where you're comming from. I just re-read what I wrote, and I'm still laughing. That comment was writen shortly after I was smacked across the head with a staff (my friend hit be by accident) and I was steaming mad. I had also recently finished a debate with someone regarding music, and non-music, and people who try to leech off the industry by making lame music. It had gotten pretty heated but turned into a hilarious insult fest, so I had all these ideas fresh in my pissed off head. Then, to hear the Poison the Well people yelling and hitting their guitars in brick walls and eating their drums, I got more frustrated, and wrote what i wrote. No excuse I know, I probably would have said the same thing about any music at the time.

I am not a Homophobic (I'm not even going begin to explain my view on Homosexuality, In simplest terms, they're people too) But my use of the word fagot (again, taken from the insult fest) would lead you to believe othrwise.

In terms of culturally illiterate, I would honestly have to say that the music in question shows a certain amount of illiteracy. The grunge-anger movement is cultural, no doubt there, it's just 80's leftover culture, that the rest of the cultured world shuns. So if not liking that music means that i am illiterate in that culture, I won't defend that.

Now, the closed minded redneck comment. I come from Canada, Alberta (red ncek country) so I know red necks when I see them. I have struggled all my life against this title, so that those who know me would say after I die "at least he wasn't a red neck". You have your opinions, and it's hard to turn someones viewpoint about someone when thier set on it. So sure, call me a red neck, I live in a city of them, I however, along with a small band of friends, have shunned that lifestyle.

That should cover it all. Anymore arguments or comments, and I'll gladly flush them down the toilet.
Talk to you later mr. Spitfire sir.

[Isric]

Oh yeah, Oppossum isn't that common around here. We have squirrel, but I suppose that's not the same thing. Squirrels are much faster too, and are much more "stringy" in texture. I wish i could get me paws on sum Oppossum. I wud eat like a king.

[Spitfire]

Ofcourse, i was never under the impression that you, Isric, were literally a redneck. It was just a means of replying in the same way you constructed your post.

About the music being culturally illiterate or not... i have on various occasion spoken to guys from the well, as well as read interviews and lyrics, and they are extremely intelligent and bright young men. Like most of the people involved in the so-called Hardcore scene, they are extemely interested in literature, various beliefs, poetry and other fine art. Most of them are also studying or have good jobs.

Their music, like all hardcore music, might sound agressive, chaotical and a-musical to many, but when closely listened to, reveals amazing musicianship and creativity, as well as true emotion and contemplation.

These people, and many with them, actually stand for something, projecting their beliefs and loves and hopes through the music they enjoy making.

I have yet to see Michael Jackson walk into the crowd after a show to get a drink and converse politics and literature with one of his fans.

[mantis]

Spitfire are located in the US? I doubt it. I have seen so many of these bands, they are so bad! These people aren't intelligent, or they don't seem so at all. Their lyrics are pointless and hackneyed. Hardcore is horrible. IMHO. Please don't flame me, I am not in the mood to fight.

------------------
Arpan . B
[email protected]
www.liquid2k.com/koma
Highroller Studios

[Transcendence]

hm...from what I've read of this thread, it seems like a pissing contest about what music really is...and spitfire is just coming off wrong?

I'm more of a industrial, ambient, darkwave, goth, etc person myself..example: right now I'm really into Joy Division, Bjork, Aphex Twin, Hooverphonic, and various thigns done by Richard D. James [aphex twin, p. window, etc]

[Spitfire]

Mantis, are we talking about the same 'hardcore' here? If there is ONE, just one, thing that sets hardcore apart from any other music then it's the lyrical content.

Hardcore is about belief, about change and about respect. Go to www.hulud.com/lyrics.html or www.boysetsfire.com/lyrics/lyrics.htm and read. Go to www.nightwork.org and read the columns, or better yet, go to www.crimethinc.com/index2.html and read what they have to say. Believing that hardcore music is dumb and violent is ignorance, it's judging what you do not know and possibly even are afraid of because it strays from the easy path taken by the majority.

[Spitfire]

"Severance" - By XfacedownX

A variety of species is slaughtered by the millions on a daily basis to provide in a luxury. Those who can, will live in severance.

In my calling, i've chosen to accept the burden of militance. Persistence has struck me back again, left grasping in severance. I'm secluded in a veil of my dissonance, Im rejected for my compassion. The allegiance in which i've sworn to uphold a divine state of restriction.

Violence is an option, but it could never vouch for reason, cause that would compromise our cause and that's the highest of all treason. What's to defend? Their screams, their fear, they break me, they nourish my severance. Im only what you make me and in the end ill seek silence - in violence. Im in a dark kind of separation, a divine state of restriction. I cut loose from what you perceive and i adapt to what my nature says.

The masks of your doctrine fall, i become more in being less.

And the planet, it turns to wasteland, acid blizzards - they raid our sphere. With an ecobalance so gravely slipping, our technology turns into fear. Circles of devastation, crude metals in the sky. So desolate is our outlook, with humanity's future passing by.

Now dont tell me that this is less intelligent and meaningful than "Oh baby yeah yeah!" or "Yo muthafucka ill cap yo sorry ass!".

[SaltyDog]

*yawn* I've seen this little debate hashed and rehashed thousands of times when I was in college. (I attended an art college ripe with *creative* individuals just looking for the chance to lunge at each other's throats)
What I find hilarious is that because something deviates from the norm or popular majority it's deemed as more original or deeper in some respect. Let's take a hypothetical situation. *SUPPOSE* Britney Spears, N'Sync, etc, etc weren't popular and adored by the masses. *SUPPOSE* such hardcore bands as those recommended by Spitfire reigned supreme on the coveted TRL countdown.... Originality is one thing..making money is entirely another. Now I could see a point if such bands who made it big, in keeping with their roots, gave all the money back to charity or helped in urban renewal. But the truth is, they're here to make money..to be adored by flocks of women, (or men, if they're preferences swing that way) If they didn't, we'd never hear of them, except if we happen to walk past their apartment door and started evesdropping.
So don't go throwing out the baby with the bathwater simply because a band is embraced by the drooling masses. Granted, I understand the concept of marketing and the industry capitalizing on current trends, but that's the way it'll always be. It makes you sound ignorant to accuse people of not knowing music or actually fearing a type of music because they feel it isn't true to form. Be it deviant or otherwise. To each his own taste. Being "cool" and counting oneself among the minority doesn't necessarily make you more eclectic or discerning.
For now I'm going to go crank some Barney Sing-along tapes and watch reruns of What's Happenin'. To me, that's "cool" and noone can convince me otherwise.

[Spitfire]

Salty, you're not listening. There is a fundamental difference between making music with a REAL message and making music for the sex, drugs & money. How do i know these people are in it for the real passion and not the fame? because they make a form of music that is, as obviously demonstrated on this forum, hated and passionately rejected, something that translates into NOT MAKING MONEY off your band. If they wanted to make money, they'd go flip burgers in the fucking McMidnight because it'd make TWICE the money they get from being a band.

Even if MTV would play sXe hardcore all the time, it would still be real music. Even when everyone in a hardcore band made as much money as bill gates, it would still be real music. Why? Because they have something to say. They have something to say and they will say it, no matter what the rest of the world thinks. It has jack fucking shit to do with being amongst the minority or feeling original, it's about being real towards yourself and towards others.

[Isric]

Spitfire,

Well spoken. i appologise for my comments, and bow out. I know all to well how far musical debates can go, its impossible, we would have an easier time debating what Art is. It would appear we both spoke quickly, but you have proven yourself. Thanks.

[immi]

Hey, what are you saying about Britney? Britney makes REAL music and her boobs are real too, so there!