[immi]

heya Dudes...i was hoping some of you could provide some more feedback to our illustrious main man, craig mullins on his column. We recently opened up a similar to Dhabih's (not trying to steal u, dhabs will always be THE place) forum at 3dpalette http://www.3dpalette.com/cgi-bin/Ultimate.cgi?action=intro and we have a section specifically for Craig Mullins column. To bring u up to speed, a few of us have been talking about what Craig could do in his column as far as teaching, and possibly setting homework or something Currently, this is what Craig said:
"We have two ways to go:
Master class- advanced lessons

Pros- The master class would take far less of my time to plan, organize and write. There are a few out there who would get something out of it. Beginners would be perplexed and 5 years later say to themselves �that�s what that jackass was talking about!� The get to it quick style would bore less and keep more people around.

Cons- Many are in dire need of basic drawing skills from the ground up. If you have followed me you know this is my mantra.

Beginner class- this is a no 2 pencil and you use the pointy end down.

Pros-I can teach, over a long while, how to draw and paint. This is a big �pro.� I would enjoy it a lot. I agree with everything you have said, fellow painter.

cons-I think it may take more time than I have to give, at this point. I am an artist, not a teacher. I�ve already been there. It takes a lot of time to do it well. If people don�t stick around for all 180 injections, the treatment will not work. And believe me, when I start talking about cubes, things get real quiet. Art instruction can be had at local schools for little money.
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From this process I am thinking of writing a book instead. It would justify the time that I would put into it. I would pull chapters from what I am writing in the book for the column. Any thoughts?"

If u could reply at the 3dp forum, that'd be cool...puh lease...

[Drunken Monkey]

I would definetly change colors. Something darker maybe, like 3d palette theme. Light letters on darker background read better on the computer screen. At least fer me. Less stressful on the eyes too.

[immi]

yeah...thats the first thing i thought...unfortunately, its the freeware version for now, so u can't change the colour scheme. BAH!

[failsafe]

I think a masterclass would be a great idea. Teaching someone to draw is a little hard and can get a bit boring at times
plus there's a lot of resources on the net for those just starting out, and a lot get good feedplace from places like the forum here. But I find it hard to find articles or tutorials for those who have been doing it for awhile and are looking to expand their artistic talents.
anyway, I'd just like to see a masterclass format to Craig's column.

[Funfetus]

Definitely an advanced class. Very hard to find advanced tips and techniques on the net from an artist of Craig's calibre.

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Funfetus
iCE VGA Division
http://www.funhousedigital.com

[sfr]

I vote for the advanced lessons as well. (Though I'm not all that advanced myself, but as Craig said basic art education is available in many places, while discussion on advanced painting topics is very hard to find indeed...)

Saffron / Sunflower

[BooMSticK]

Yeah! I'm backing up behind Funfetus and Saffron. Great advanced painting topics are SO hard to find...

I for one, would buy that book... Any time for ANY price...

and great initiative Immi...thanks...



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Freelancer: Peter Villumsen
Website

[email protected]

[s[pank]]

Advanced classes!! One or two quality advanced papers/articles would kick 10-20 basic "this is how to use a wacom tablet - part I-IV".

It's fine that this (and other) boards get used for "HELP ME PAINT" forums, but a lot of people would like to see some serious discussions happening, where if you are past the "beginners" phase and into the "intermediate - advanced" level, you can actually learn something.

I know for a fact that Dhabih's tutorial on the dude with the sword was a HIT with tonnes of people, because it didn't start with "this is how you draw a figure properly", or "how to choose your colours"... it went straight in and talked about techniques and methods for achieving a particular style.

There are a couple of other tutes out there of that calibre, but they are few and far between.

Bring on the advanced classes I say!


s[pank] you.

[Digital Genesis]

I wonder how many of you guys can produce freehand correct perspective drawings (or very close to)
Precise chrome/reflection renderings.
How many here actually have exquisite control over edge quality and color flow?

Like CM says, when he starts talking about cubes it gets real quiet.

Sorry to say it, but from looking at the pictures in this forum, only a FEW people would benefit from a master's class.
If you're not already at, or very close to CM's level, you won't benefit from a master's class.

The rest are simply tooting a horn thinking they're at a point they're not. They need to study the basics (which are NOT how to use a wacom tablet or whatever, but solid art principles).

My two cents worth.

[sfr]

DG, I guess the question is: which is more valuable use of his time, teaching us something that can be had elsewhere (as he himself says), or sharing his unique experience?

I don't think anyone who wants the advanced classes is pretending to be on his level, as you suggest. It's just that the advanced lessons seem potentially more valuable, sort of like having to choose between getting paid in cash or stock options (stupid analogy, but I hope you understand what I mean )

Saffron / Sunflower

[Ronin Spoon]

I'm going to have to agree with most everyone else. I believe a masters or intermediate level calss would be best. A book would be even better. Were it published by an artist of Craigs caliber I can guarantee I would purchase it. Now don't get me wrong, I am not a master level artist. Even during my art prime I didn't produce the quality of work I have seen on this board. However, I know which end of the pencil is supposed to point down and I know why my art doesn't always come out right. Small masterful insights into the details are what I beleive would be most beneficial. Review Craigs tute on reflective surfaces. I probably couldn't reproduce that work right away, but it did give me the insight to practise the techniques so that one day I may get it right.

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Ronin Spoon

[Sumaleth]

I would definitely prefer high-level tutes as well. It seems to me that if we are going to have access to the master of digital imagery, we're better off getting information out of him that we can't get elsewhere.

Although I'll happily read whatever he writes . And I'm sure there are probably a lot of great tips to be discovered for all aspects of the process.

Sumaleth

--

impact.frag.com | www.loonygames.com | www.fountainheadent.com

[Danny]

Okay,

when I read Immi's message containing Craig's suggestion I knew everybody on this forum would start screaming "ADVANCED LESSONS!!" However I have to agree with Digital Genesis on this one.
While this forum spawns some really nice pieces of work, there are a lot of people who still lack the basics. The majority of people here would probably benefit a lot more from a beginners approach. You have to learn how to walk properly before you can run.
I'm sure Craig could teach *everyone* here on this forum (myself included) a thing or two with the lessons he'd call beginners class.
I can understand everybody's thirst for Craig's wise words when looking at his impressive portfolio. Who would want to be forced back to drawing cubes when he's also offered to reveal that so illusive high-end information needed to reach his level.
I know I would.. I'd love to see Craig explain in detail how he'd started out. So what if some of his lessons covers ground you've already been over before.
I find that a comparisment of his early years as a painter to my own would be of great value to me. There's always SOMETHING you can learn. Let's not be too ignorant about that.

My advice to Craig would be to go from the beginning if he wants his lessons to be of REAL use to a large crowd.

Danny

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[email protected]

Trust in Trance

[Cos]

I think its really cool of Craig to want to do this for the digital artists community, I'm sure he's a very busy guy, to even take time out to do something like this is fkkin excellent of him.

Personally I would love to see the advanced classes, I reckon that would definetely be something special and beneficial even if none of us are on craig's level, at least it will get us thinking in the right way.

I mean when I first read the column, admittedly I was kinda baffed, but re-reading it a few times :P, it was damn excellent, makes you think a whole lot more about what you are doing.

Whichever you decide to do Craig, we'll all be listening. Thanks for doing it.. and when you write that book, make sure you reserve me a copy :P

Cheers
Cos

[random]

whatever Graig gives.. I will read it...

[Sergenth]

I have a wierd idea!

First off, I would appreciate the advanced classes more so that the basics. That's for me :) Especially since I love www.phong.com so much with the advanced techniques and (drool) rock tutorial (soon to be the lens flare of the 00's decade)

But I also realize how direct Craig could be with the basics... here he's been professionally drawing for years now; he knows drawing, and if his presentations are very vivid, visible intuitive and Direct-to-Brain(tm) compatible, then artists out there now (and years to come) will get a free 1up, nay... a 3up!

It's a tough decision... and I will not pin up the responsibility of teaching the art world on Mr. Mullins. Therefore I say, let us encourage the advanced classes and then... from within this spanky art community (centered here for some reason at sijun.com ;P ) let the artists fill in for Craig where the neophytes find the obstacle of confusion.

I'm talking supportive tutorials here. Of course... this coming from someone who wants to write a Calculus textbook using tiny cartoon characters and illustrations :P

[Loki]

IMHO there are already a lot of 'beginner's lessons' out there - with varying quality of course, but there's as far as I know NO advanced source of information. So in the light of that it would be really cool, since Craig is so nice to do it, to get some high grade insight on advanced topics ...

[immi]

Thanks guys for the suggestions.

Sergenth, you were being sarcastic about the advanced nature of phongs tutorials right? right?

[Digital Genesis]

I'd love to know where all these stupendous tutorials are, that supposedly teach all the vital basics. (without pointing me in the direction of an art college).

Please enlighten me.

In my eyes, Mr. Mullins is the perfect person to teach the basics. He knows what to empasize, what to guide people towards and steer clear of.

Why don't we all support him writing a book?
One that includes both lessons for training the basics and also covers advanced topics?

Instead of dividing into two camps, wouldn't it be better to work together and back up the main man?

I am positive writing a book of this magnitude must be a massive feat.

And think, for a moment, once it is done, it will hopefully either answer your questions, or have you capable of figuring them out on your own.

DG

[PaK-RaT]

here's my 2 cents:

when im in class, i absorb SO MUCH MORE when the prof works from the ground up. regardless what level im on, if we go thru the steps the instructor lays out the learning process will go so much smoother as we get more advanced, i'd say we'd be garunteed a much more solid and full background, and avoid questions that would be filled if we just cover the basics, it will be SO much harder to fill in gaps in our learning if we're all starting at diff levels with a not only varied level of skill, but a varied style of teaching or learning behind us.

I say we should work from the ground up, talking about color, composition, proportion, scaling, perspective, yadda yadda yadda...so what if we redo some basic shit...whats the prob with review

[burn0ut]

Well, that would be all good and great pak, but would he be willing to do all of that, THEN going to more advanced stuff?

BTW, WHATS UP PAK

[Sergenth]

uh... uhm, sarcastic? eep... no, I just really like the rock texture tutorial... in a dangerous way!

only because I'm still amazed how a difference cloud mask turns into a lightmapped rocky tex - it rocks over wimpy photoshop flame procedure

Hmm, looks like I'm outclassed... better get some Photoshop technical procedure books ASAP.

[s[pank]]

If he's happy teaching 14-18 y.o's who are still in high-school but really like digital art and 'want to get into it', then go for the 'ground up approach'.

But frankly, most people who are serious about digital art and want to make a career of it, get some kind of formal training, whether it's in-house at a graphic co. or at an art school somewhere.

Unless CM is dead keen on starting his own online "Mullins Beginner Art Classes" (in which case he wouldn't be asking for any comments on the decision) my vote is that he angles towards the more intermediate-advanced level.

Take a poll, and I'll bet that people who vote for the starter classes will be 60% in high-school and 30% "I like it, but it's just a hobby". I doubt more than the final 10% would be serious 'digital artists'.

Sure there are only a handful of people who are at CMs level, but that doesn't mean that the rest of us can't benefit from a more advanced lesson than (quote) "this is a no.2 pencil, and you use the pointy end down".

CMs own words were that he doesn't have the time to commit to a full-on "Art Course", so really that only leaves a few articles a month.

Make them quality I say. Wanna learn to draw? Go to school. Been to school? Bring on the advanced articles.


s[pank]in' away...

[Digital Genesis]

All this advanced vs. basic I think Mr. Mullins already declared as nul and void, indirectly.
He stated pros and cons for both, basically amounting to neither working out.

SO, he asks us 'What about writing a book?' which he'd pull chapters from to put in the 3dpalette column.

Try and address the question at hand people.
This is evolving on a plane which isn't healthy, considering he has implied himself, that online classes won't happen.

DG

[random]

IMHO... I would like to read the "basic" stuff because I think that Graig can teach us those better than most of the tutorials available on internet.
And if he's going to write a book, I promise to buy it..

[Joppe]

Go for the masterclass I say, because that's what I'll read if anything.

[amnesia]

Ground up.