[Jyashuwa]

I ask this question because of my current frustrations with my school.

-How important is it to finish a degree? -Does it actually help you get job in a production house, or Game company?

I just wanted to know what you guys thought?

[proximo]

Well to tell you the truth this is just at my school , lots of people dont finish it and they get a job b4 they are out, the reason for it is , that many companys just want to see that you can do the work and will take the time to train you.. a certificate or a degree does not really prove anything in the industry, i killer portpholio and resume with paid experiance will get you farther then a degree in opinion..

[Frost]

Hi Josh.

In my oppinion, it's a good idea to finish a degree for a few basic reasons:

1) Companies want to hire people that have proven dedication to his field. Artists with a degree should have a better understanding of artistic techniques, history, etc, giving them a better edge and understanding, an invaluable experience in my oppinion. It's also easier to justify hiring a degree'd artists than just one person off the streets who 'seems' to know what he's doing -- also is a better asset to the company's image (hiring professional artists or unknown artists).

2) As an artist, you have lots to benefit from getting a degree, both professionally and personally. Your understanding and experience after achieving this should help you guide yourself artistically and go straight to the objective having the knowledge wasting less time analysing your images and refining them -- one should learn from a degree (I think) how to compose images properly from the start, not just hack around it.

What I mean to say is NO, you don't NEED a degree to be a game artist or such, all you basically need is DAMN GOOD portfolio. But not having the background will bring you problems down the line I believe.

Just as someone without a degree can do great art, one with a degree can do crap art. One needs both -- the reliability of a degree, and the pure proven talent in a port-folio form.

I for one have no degree, and have never studied in art -- although I have worked in a game company as a computer game artist. I got where I am from being both a crude-talented artist and a part-time programmer, which makes me somewhat of an invaluable artist, knowing most of the technical aspects of real-time technology and its limitations. My art suffers from lack of training on a professional front, and I'm currently trying to compensate from learning whatever I can and practicing forms and image designs and such on my own and thru other people's work.

Overall, I would encourage you to go ahead and not screw up your life by quitting. I think having a solid background is very important for you as an artist and also as a candidate for hiring.

I regret many things in life, as I took almost every wrong turn, doing things MY way, which was probably not the way to do things. Now I have no degree, limited education (no college) -- I just have to rely on the little raw talent I have and my logic to succeed,... I'm turning 28 soon, right in the middle of Loki and Danny, both successful artists with great portfolios, resumes, and very interesting work contracts.

It takes hard work and dedication. if it makes you feel any better, both Craig Mullins (http://www.goodbrush.com) and John Mueller (http://www.jmueller.com) have had tough experiences with their art teachers during their training -- both of which are extremely great successful artists now. Don't let it get you down. =]

Good luck with your studies.
frost.

[B]

i agree, when i get back into college i will take a few traditional painting classes and finish getting my business degree,. i took a few years off college, then went of working for a living,. well,. works suck, if you're in the wrong field,.
i'm a tech, a damn good tech, but i work with moron's who have degrees and they're getting paid more than I...

anywho,.. if you're in it for the money, prestige,.. or anything along those lines get a degree,.

if you're here to mooch off your parents and be called a bum for the rest of your life,. <unles you're one of the few lucky ones> then quit school and become a starving artist,.

i can't remember why i started to reply to this post, but somewhere in there i beleive a made at least a point for something,.

b

[fragamite]

the BEST thing about studying is all the friends with similar interests you get to know and learn from.

studying is fun! It's all about improving yourself. you're gonna work for the rest of your life so there's really no need to hurry. (well of course you might have to take loans and stuff, but here in Sweden college is practically free. you even get some money for doing it)

for all you scandinavians I HIGLY recommend the school I'm going to: http://www.kp.hig.se

[akh]

Affected: Youre absolutely correct. If you looe at any production houses (at least for 3d animation, because thats what i plan to do) they dont really care if you know maya or max or soft etc... its a bonus, but what they really want is people with the traditional background and traditional animation. All the these skills can be easily transfered to the computer... which is why i hate the 8 week crash courses on computer programs and art schools that just throw you onto the computer without really developing your traditional skills... especially life drawing!


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akh.cjb.net
mmmmm...doughnuts

[Trance-R]

Education? School?
DAMN IMPORTANT!
.... just so you know what I think.
It's good to have kick ass art skilz, but your education background reali makes you shine even more. Esp when you are compared to other ppl.

[Affected]

The reason I'm asking is that there's a school that seems good in the city I live in. It's basically free: no tuitions, free food... The only problem is, that it seems to be a bit too emphasized on multimedia and 'net art' as they call it, although they do have a program in the fine arts as well.
I think I'll try to get in anyway, and look at other options, too. It's a decision I'll have to make by next spring.

Oh, here's the schools site in english: http://www.cult.tpu.fi/kv/index.html

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Affected

Knowledge is belief and belief is knowledge
http://affected.xs.mw

[This message has been edited by Affected (edited March 14, 2000).]

[Jyashuwa]

Thanks all. I really appreciate the imput. This has actually helped me make a important decision in my life.

[spooge demon]

Wow, what a neat thread and the ideas expressed show a lot of thought. I'm impressed.

I think the bigger question is the art school you are going to worth anything.

I went to school in industrial design, then illustration. The main reason I went back to school is I wanted to improve my figure knowledge. I could not imagine going through life with a weakness in that area. It would be very limiting professionally.

Keep in mind that I am really biased. My work requires very academic techniques and approaches. Other people have a more fine art approach to illustration. I think that teaching academics gives more freedom later on, but some would argue that learning the basics "infects" your perceptions. Could be.

If your goal is to get a job (and it should not be limited to just this) yes a degree can help.

But really think about what they are teaching you. The thoughts about crash courses in new media being useless are right on the money to me. You are right, Affected.

In my area of work, your income varies directly with the ability to draw. This is just as true even if you are doing 3-d. A mouse pusher is pretty worthless. And by drawing skill I mean knowledge, not just what pops into your mind when I say "drawing." It is a design sense and refinement, part structural and part judgment. Developing this, I believe, will put you far ahead no matter what you decide to do later on.

Sooo, if you are learning the basics, stick with it. If they are trying to BS you into being a half-assed fine artist, leave and find some place with some content.

PS no offense to fine artists, but they are a totally different animal. The training involved is also very different. A lot of schools like to blur the edges, and it is not cool to either discipline, IMHO

[[Shizo]]

I just turned 17 so i really have to think about my life.. Actially im pretty talented in basically everything (lol) But unless my becoming-the-super-star plan fails, i go as a digital artist.. So if you bums know any college courses names, then tell me! What i want to study is 2d computer art, and modeling ..

Also important thing (that only applies to me) I CANT WORK AT HOME!!! I mean at school i do homework, draw, study. But when i get home i just cant do anything with myself! I dont do homework, dont draw (too much). So.. thats how i am. I need a school environment to produce because of my lazyness.

Ehh.. i just realized you were talking about somethign else LOL but im gonna press the "Submit Reply" button anyway! pH34r m3!

PS: i got into first 100 in imation comp. art contest but didnt win!! THATS BECAUSE I AM RUSSIAN dieeeee

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Russia is power. You dont agree --> we nuke you!

[Affected]

Am I right in thinking a more traditional degree would be more useful than a degree in computer graphics, at least as far as the skills you gather are concerned? The way I see it, most of the theory that applies to traditional media also applies to CGI, and since software and hardware change so quickly ,it seems CGI degrees may not be as useful as they're made out to be. Does anyone have any views on this?

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Affected

Knowledge is belief and belief is knowledge
http://affected.xs.mw

[derPunkt]

Well, IMHO, I think that art school (I mean the raw, classic drawing school) will get you far. I've been doing digital art longer than the traditional, but I've came to the point where I wasn't satisfied with my work anymore. So, I applied to Croatian Academy of Fine Arts (BTW, they only take 8 students each year) and I got in. Why? I swept them off their feet with my digital portfolio. It was something they have never seen (in such manner, ofcourse). Now, after only one semester, I have a better understanding of colour, shape, and overall composition.
As, Craig says, that those artists are another type of animal, its true. But I have managed to prove them that I won't be taking the "artiste" path in my life, so they kinda got off my case, artistic techniques wise. So, all in all, I think traditioinal art school can be very helpfull + there is a degree you carry to your future employer.

P.S. Frost: I just wonder, how much did you fuck up your life, coz you are still waaaaay ahead of me.
dP

[Frost]

DerPunkt: Well, there just comes a time, well, MULTIPLE times in life where you just stop, look around, and see where you stand amongst others of your entourage, where you often realize that you haven't got much to show for. I do a lot of that, and I see a lot of flaws in my work, which I attribute to the lack of proper art education. It was just self reflection, hoping my words would reach some people and encourage them to do more, and learn art 'properly'. I'm just an experienced 'hacker'... not much more.

But thanks for the very flattering words, you did get me to smile there for a second. =)

cheers.
frost.

[zapman]

just one line

you got the skills you got the job.

ZAPmAn (well its 3 lines now)

[derPunkt]

Frost =)) Thats what friends are for.

Zapman, yeah, thats absolutely true, but what do you need to gain those skills. Or better, how do you define skill? As being able to produce good stuff (technicaly wise) or have that "taste" for "artwork". And I mean really impressive artwork.
I still think artschool can give you a firm base for any kind of stuff you'll do in the future.
dP

[akh]

you have a point zapman, but at the same time, if you finish your degree or go to art school, you will form relationships and make contacts with people in the industry. With these contacts, it'll be a lot easier to set your foot in the outside world to get a job, especially like in the film industry. However, after a couple of years, your contacts will still be important, but your degree will mean less and your portfolio more.

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akh.cjb.net
mmmmm...doughnuts

[random]

um.. I'm 17 and I go sixth form (gymnasium,lukio) what ever is it in your country but it is related to arts, and i'm in special section there what's is for multimedia. It helps to get know with some new programs and something like that but the teaching in multimedia lessons are so poor that people would learn that stuff better by themselfs.
In all other ways that school is VERY GOOD for helping me to improve my skills. I have been doing digital art much more than traditional and now I'm learning traditional things and of course that helps me with digital art too. I can get known with some professionals and I meet other artist all the day and that helps A LOT with my skills and stuff..
In that school there's a lot of different kind of things you can study, but my problem is that I don't know where I'm going to go. My multimedia teacher likes my works and says that I should do that in future... my movies&video teacher is trying to get me in that side and as my self I like to do 2d-paintings and 3d-animations which ones one professional at video-business engourages me to do (I do some works to him and got money from it already.. ) and of course one of my quite good sides are programming and stuff but I don't know.. I don't want to lose myself as a code-slave for some company!
so I don't know what to study!. I know that I have to try study something after my current school because in finland after sixth form you have to try to get in some university.
uh oh.. life's to complicated..

[chumps]

I think education is important in every field, even art, although the U.S. public education system seems to think otherwise!

I remember reading an interview of Levelord (some level designer for Ritual I think), and he said how he would never use a level concept done by someone else, that everything has to come from him and him only.

That, in my opnion, is such a flawed way of thinking. Of course originality is crucial, and it's all about finding your own unique sense of style and design in the end, but there is SO much to learn from others before you get there!

From what I've read, there are only a handful of gaming companies I would ever want to work for. Most of the time it is long days with menial pay. Remember we aren't limited to game companies! There are so many more fields that require digital artists, fields that in my opinion are on a higher level than pc-gaming...

And the higher you want to go up that digital totem pole the more important a degree is, in terms of the experience and knowledge you have accrued.

My two cents.



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Stroke my ego.

[zayats]

There are a lot of variables associated with this question. Whether or not art school is worthwhile really depends on the school (do they want to make artists or do they just wanna make money?), and most importantly, the instructors (Are they teaching because they want to or because that's the only art job they can get?). The quality of your fellow students is a factor. The geographical location is also important (is the school in a city that has good museums and local studios that offer guest speakers & internships).

As a few responders have noted, at the end of the day the only thing that really matters to an employer is whether or not you can do the job. But it takes more than just art talent to be able to do the job. You have to be able to meet a deadline. You often have to be able to work & play well with others. You very often have to be able to accept criticism and then apply it properly to the assignment. I know a number of extremely talented artists who are, regretfully, unemployable because they lack the discipline & attitude required to work as professionals. I went to art school (after dropping out of Computer Science & preMed studies at a University). Honestly, my teachers didn't really improve my art skills all that much (I was "self-taught" as a child/teen). I became a better artist mainly because of the friendly competition I had going with my fellow students. We inspired each other. Had get-drunk-and-draw-caricatures-of-our-teachers parties, etc.

Mainly, Art School taught me:
1) How to collaborate;
2) How to meet deadlines (don't wait 'til the last minute!);
3) How to receive and apply criticism;
4) How to organize my time;
4) How to be a finisher.

On the job, these skills are just as important as your talent.

If you have a lot of experience, it's (usually) a given that you've developed such skills. If you don't have a lot of experience, potential employers need some other indication that you possess them.

Having graduated from Art School goes a long way toward convincing your future boss that you have such skills & can therefore work effectively in a production environment.

I guess the bottom line is: If you feel like you're learning and growing as an artist (and as a future employee) from being in art school, then by all means finish. If not, go out there and start working. You can always go back to school later if you want (but you'll probably find that, after spending a few years as an employed artist, you'll be more likely to go back to school as an instructor rather than as a student!)

Yo, Kurisu!
Thanks for the invite to join this list...
There are some damn talented folks here!

Looking forward to tomorrow...

[chumps]

Out of curiosity, what school did you attend Zayats? As a matter of fact, anyone that has attended an art school please mention the name!

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Stroke my ego.

[Rorshach]

Just so you have a mix of opions i'd have to say that I havent found lack of college training has held me back at all.

If anything, companies that have seen my work have been all the more impressed with it because i've taught myself everything.

Whats important in the Games Industry is that you have experience of working on games and that have a great body of past work.

When I've seen CV's sent in to Reflections , everyone reading skims thru the qualifications section saying 'blah blah blah' ooh look eyecandy!

In general also i would have to say that out of the applicants we did get, the most impressive ones were from people that didnt come straight froma college or uni, rather people from the demoscene of online community were the more impressive ones.


just my 2cents.
r.



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www.quakefiles.com/rorshach

[faustgfx]

whatever happened to the good old "be a starving artist" lifestyle? :|



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http://www.faustgfx.com
icq#35983387
the resident caustic bitch / the owls are not what they seem.