[Godzilla Was Matthew]

It's very strange to go through these pictures, seems to me very evident that they sought for a new roman empire.
You know history don't repeat itself because of chance, I hope you understand that?
I just hope that once sometime in the future that the truth will be told, the real truth and not the manufactured.
I don't think that will ever be the case, makes me sad.

http://www.rense.com/grm/htgrm.htm

[[Shizo]]

Wow, the color photos make it look much more real and "modern".

[Godzilla Was Matthew]

yea it looks like the 70's or something in the pics. hmm.

[Max Ostap]

Whoa! These are incredible.

Hitler admittedly designed the whole reich after the Roman model. He talks about it. He wanted to restore the Holy Roman Empire. He copied almost everything - the standards, the fascii, salute all with his own twist on it. You ever see his watercolors? Its all there. The whole thing was roughly designed before he even started.

[[Shizo]]

I've seen a couple of Hitler's paintings but I didn't notice any designs for the building of the 3rd reich in them.. But again, I'm not so familiar with Hitler's art.

[Sumaleth]

There's an irony in Hilter's interest of the Roman model, given that the Germanic tribes held off the Roman advance for a few hundred years and ultimately brought about Rome's downfall.

But he was a Roman Catholic, so perhaps his religious heritage outweighed his national one.

The Nazi salute is said to be similar to the roman one, but I think scholars tend to think the Nazis took it from germanic tribal customs rather than the romans.

To the idea that Hitler took visual clues from the Romans, it'd be fun to think that he took them from modern interpretations rather than historical truths. I mean, there were no cameras in Roman times so our image of Roman society comes from artistic re-creations. Though the Romans certainly understood spectacle, which they presumably took from the Greeks before them, and the Egyptians before that.

But its all just a combination of ego and land-grabbing.
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[Max Ostap]

Don't overlook Holy Roman Empire - a product of Germans not the same as Roman Empire of the old. Which is why it had such insane support in Germany, it felt authentic to their culture.

The salute is totally fake, there is no document of it at all from what i know, same with the thumbs up or down gesture. It was created by Renaissance painters during that era when they painted a lot of Roman scenes. We've all seen it. There is a name for that period in art, i forgot.

I don't know if it was all about land grabbing and egos though. Its like this color revolution template, just something shady about same type of revolution happening all around at the same time.

[Sumaleth]

Holy Roman Empire? Hadn't come across that is my readings and watchings. My sources must be a bit too Britian-centric. I blame Time Team.

All the empire-building stuff I've learned about starts with a bunch of local egos fighting to become something like "king", then then winner butts heads with the "kings" next door, then the winner wants that land across the water or down the peninsula, and then the land on the other side of that, and so on.

All the great empires follow that sort of progression. And you still see it happening now; Russia has about as much land area as anyone yet they're still fighting places like Georgia over some little strip of land, and China seem hell bent on owning Tibet even though the people there share little in common with China itself.

Egos and land. That's my take.
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[Max Ostap]

Holy Roman Empire - i am sure there is info on it on the web. But basically it was formed from the ashes of Rome and was largely composed of Christian Gauls. Remember in Gladiator (fiction) they were killing forest tribes? These later lived under Roman rule so they developed into Gallo-Roman society.

Anyway its all good, i just love Rome. And dark ages aren't very popular topic.

I am not disagreeing about the empire building at all. I am just not so sure whose empire it is thats expanding. This is not an invitation to some long winded quotation and scholarly reference filled debate, i am just saying it may not be as black and white as history books.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USGSOViaulc (overview)
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004/sep/25/usa.secondworldwar