[Brake Check]

This is an apple balanced atop an elliptical box. The box is 1/2 as wide and high as it is long.
The apple height equals the length of the box. The apple is 1/2 as long as the box and the same width as the box at the apple's widest diameter.
The viewer plane ..I am at 1 o' clock..the box is at 7 o'clock
The box is sitting on a flat shelf positioned in relationship to the shelf at an angle of rotation such that..If a clock were laid flat on the shelf the major axis of the box would be approximately 8 o'clock at the point nearest the viewer and the furthest point 2 o'clock if viewer is facing north/south and the shelf is east/ west..Or if the top/center of the image is 12 o'clock)
The question is..When I try to get the box level on the plane, the lines of the box tend to rotate to the front view rather than the angled view.. When I have the box rotated to the correct position..it is not level How do I level the box in a perspective angled view?
This image is a compromise..It is almost level and almost rotated into the correct alignment ..almost

[Brake Check]

OK I tried a different approach..Is this a better perspective view or am I still way off base?

[Drew]

[Brake Check]

Thank You Drew
Level is Level on/with the Plane..where all the planes of the object are level with the other planes..A box cannot be "tilted" on a shelf even though the bottom is rounded..or even if the plane is tilted in relationship to the viewer..It is an internal Level relationship..
Exactly what Level Means:
In the first drawing:
I did draw the elliptical box in a simple rectangular box in perspective..When I attempted to show the rotation of the axis of the ellipse ..the planes of the elliptical box were not parallel or level in relationship to the planes of the rectangular box..
When the elliptical box was level with the planes of the rectangular box..the axis were not rotated to the proper alignment..It looked as if the clasp was in the front (orthographic view?) rather than in the position where the clasp should be if the axis was properly aligned
In the second drawing:
I drew the elliptical box as multiple, layered ellipses to level and align the axis properly..
Is either drawing correct or is there a better way to align and level elliptical axis on a perspective plane?

[Brake Check]

OK..I boxed the 2nd elliptical box posted above and..shown below

The perspective rectangle box is black
The Drawing of the elliptical box is Dark Blue
The ellipse is green with the axis marked in green
The rotated ellipse is red with the axis marked in red



The 2nd Drawing of the elliptical box posted above fits the rectangular box very well..but I drew the 2nd elliptical box from an idea I had while looking at a van Gogh painting..of something else entirely and I don't know why it works..
Is the second drawing correct? Any ideas

[Drew]

I don't suppose you have a picture of what you're trying to draw?

[Brake Check]

OK..I took some pictures which I didn't want to do..because I would be tempted to trace it rather than solve the problem I am having with drawing ellipses...but I will post these and promise myself not to trace.. I still want to learn to draw this box in the traditional way..whatever that is..
The box is a bit wider than my casual measurements indicated but I don't think the width is relevent to the axis align/level problem..The box is made of bamboo
drawing view

front view

top view

[Brake Check]

This morning I drew the elliptical box..inside a rectangular box following the idea of rotated ellipses that I thought of while looking at a Van Gogh painting..Then I traced the "real" box in the photo and placed it over the Van Gogh method elliptical drawing. (the line of the lid is a portion of a vesica pisces of the green ellipse)
The rectangular box is black
The rotated ellipses are green, red, blue
The Van Gogh Method Box is Black
The Photo Trace is Yellow
Here is the result:


The two elliptical boxes don't quite match in the lower right but it may be the trace isn't accurate. It was difficult to trace the image in that area of the photo...
I call this method of rotated ellipses ..the Van Gogh Method..but I don't quite understand it yet..have to study it ..
Any other methods or comments welcome..

[Drew]

*Inside* the box. The reference box you've drawn has no relation to the box you're trying to draw. Here's a quick and dirty example.


Also, it might help to just forget about perspective. Look at the box as a 2d shape and draw it. It'll probably come out pretty close to what you need. It helps to be able to see the shape as well as the form, also the positive space as well negative space.

[Brake Check]

Thanks Drew
I thought the apple would be hard but I can draw apples fine..Then that box..took me by surprise..I thought it would be simple..easy but there is something I just don't "get"..I saved a copy of your box..Maybe your box will help
I am going to give the box a break for a few days..then go back to it and see if I can"see" what it is that is I am not "seeing."
THANKS AGAIN..

[Brake Check]

Drew
Using a combination of your box and the rotated ellipses I tried a lemon...which is an elliptical "box"
I am not completely happy with the shading or the shape..but here it is..

[Drew]

http://studiochalkboard.evansville.edu/s-chiaro.html

I didn't read the link, but the picture tells the story. Different objects will have different properties, but in general all objects will have some degree of what's shown in the picture. You can start off painting a ball, just for practice. As soon as you can make that look like it has volume, you should be able to do the same with all similar shapes, like lemons and apples.

[Brake Check]

Exactly! I have just been learning to draw..and I always could "color"..just spray it on and smear it around so it looks almost good
Shading..(oh boy)
I analyzed a few tutorials lately..and I was looking at a Dali Painting of a basket of bread ..It occurs to me that I can't quite understand shading because I can't separate Color from Light...
I thought I would do some napkins and draperies ....like the napkins in Dali's paintings..because the napkin is white and the shading and shadow gives the napkin it's shape..In other words, remove the color factor from the shading issue..I suppose people who learn to draw with a pencil learn the separation of light shadow and color shade..
Thanks for the link ..I have read most of it so far but..as I said..I can't quite "see" the red colors of the apple and the darker/lighter value of the light as two separate things..
Ron Leman had an excellent tutorial on light values posted here... boxes and cue balls..I have studied that carefully but I am just starting to understand it..