Sijun Forums :: View topic

Brake Check · member Member # Joined: 05 Dec 2005 Posts: 126

This may be a dumb question but I don't understand this concept..
I have an area that is dark colored..and higher than an area that is light colored...So the dark colored area is raised..the light colored area is recessed..
I don't know how to post images in the forum so I posted them here:
http://www.hartake.com/page3.html
The first image is the shape from the side..with the black part being higher than the white..When the area is flat towards the viewer, I can show the raised area of the dark easily by placing a highlight in the black (a gradient works fine)..but how do I get the Reversed Shading..so the white looks like it is going in a trough direction..like the letter U..? Would I use Value..making the black Color a lighter Value than the Value of the Color white?
I used gradients..grey for the white...darker for the black but it always lools like two pipes side by side..I have tried to solve this in a thousand different shades..sometimes just two shades of the same color with the LIGHTER color bending the opposite direction of the DARKER color or being further away..and I can get some illusion but not a good solid understanding of technique..
How do I shade this?
I hope this isn't too kindergarten stuff ..thanks for any help or suggestions..[/img]

jfrancis · Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 12:49 am

If it's front-lit - the hilight would catch in the bottom of the valley as easily as the top of the peak ridge.

Brake Check · member Member # Joined: 05 Dec 2005 Posts: 126

Pinto Ponies and Sinks..
You are right..If the sink is the same color..just a lighter hue than the color of the countertop..then the highlight would be exactly the same shade in the countertop and a toplit sink but a toplit sink tends to invert..and look more like those glass light bulb covers on the ceiling than a sink..Look at some photos of sinks to see that without context..photographed sinks tend to invert..
But with a slant light...If the sink is set in a dark hued counter top..there will be bands of dark bluish shadows in the white at the top of the sink..then lighter bands with highlights in the bottom near the drain..the highlights are actually *lines* showing the curvature of the sink bowl near the drain..but when I paint it ..it looks like a plate set on a table..
Base Color..highlight..shadow...in color theory ..combined with line, perspective and contex..and careful observation...and skill..It may be possible to do a credible job of a sink...
What you said..what does it mean? If there are equal highlights in both the upper and lower ..lighter--darker areas..it would make it even more of a double gradient..with an upward curve..unless there is "line" and context to show sink or painted pony..

Brake Check · member Member # Joined: 05 Dec 2005 Posts: 126

OK.
You Said:

jfrancis · Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 7:46 pm

Brake Check · member Member # Joined: 05 Dec 2005 Posts: 126

THANKS!!!
When I turn it sideways..it is the same banding pattern I am seeing in the sink..So I can apply it to other more complex surfaces..such as random dark patterns over a bony horse..
Thanks VERY MUCH...

Brake Check · member Member # Joined: 05 Dec 2005 Posts: 126

OK..
Where did you get the ray trace program?
I checked Google and I can't find much about ray tracing..
Ray Tracing? Will it save further hours of staring into sinks..swaying side to side and turning lights. off and on....vanity mirror light ..overhead lights..curtains opened and closed..drop lights from the garage..all of which was a great learning experience to learn the difference between hue, luminance..color and shading..but alarming to the casual observor..such as my family.They are starting to speak in whispers about me..Is it just incipient paranoia..or is it really Art? LOL..

Tzan · Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 11:08 am

Ray tracing is something that a 3D art program does.
I use Lightwave, but there are some free or less expensive ones out there.

B0b · Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 1:03 pm

FREE Ray Tracer Smile

some other links for free 3D tools as well Wink

Google is a wonderful thing Wink

Brake Check · member Member # Joined: 05 Dec 2005 Posts: 126

I found and downloaded the PovRay v3.6 but I don't understand it yet...I wasn't certain that was a similiar program to the one used to render the image above..
I will figure it out..if it will trace hot and cold shades across color fields.. Confused

Impaler · Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 10:57 am

You could just get a digital camera and start collecting reference shots.
_________________
QED, sort of.

Brake Check · member Member # Joined: 05 Dec 2005 Posts: 126

Yes..
Do you know of any other large field beside screens (such as chinese painted screens) or bathroom/kitchen sinks that have the light lower/dark higher color depth?
Look at pictures of sinks..Sinks..bathroom sinks are fairly deep..maybe as deep as they are wide and there are distortions in the photos..depth distortions..and inversion of gradients..I have taken a few good shots with natural light and I have seen a few good shots posted on the internet but most pictures of sinks..have to be labeled or referenced by some other means..like faucets or a person would not know what it was..
I noticed this color/depth reversal on pinto ponies but that is very subtle..and sinks seem to be most common object that has a white or lighter depth field than the surrounding area or countertop..
Cameras are great but..jpg smear and poor lightening is not the whole of the problem...The camera "sees" in a different plane/field than the human eye..especially subtle shadows and depth fields..
Real Life Study..Drawing or Painting from Life..I am starting to appreciate that very much..It is the best way..
I painted some sinks ..from a few good photos and a study of real life..on the page http://www.hartake.com/page3.html
Does anyone know of any good paintings of sinks?

jfrancis · Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2006 6:41 pm

I used Maya to model it, and Mental ray to light it.

Brake Check · member Member # Joined: 05 Dec 2005 Posts: 126

May I post it on my web page..under "solutions?"
I hesitated because you might be working up a tutorial or a solution page of your own..

jfrancis · Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 7:05 am

You may have it. If you want to keep it around, you should re-host it.

Brake Check · member Member # Joined: 05 Dec 2005 Posts: 126

Thanks
I will rehost it..I just started drawing and painting..I never could draw with a pencil. Then I made a web site just to illustrate drawing in Corel Drawing to some people on another thread..
Now I seem to be writing Tutorials as I Learn.. Laughing

I have a new page Page 4..that I put up for a friend of mine showing the medieval proportions..Appreciate anyone who proofreads the page and gives me any feedback..
Vector Graphics..
http://www.hartake.com/page4.html
Thanks Again..
I will give proper credit and keep developing a coherent method of shading sinks and pinto ponies
It will be on Page 3..

jfrancis · Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2006 10:09 am

Your proportions place the eye line too high - it should cut the face roughly in half, not sit 2/3 of the way to the top. That's part of what makes it seem "Medieval"

Brake Check · member Member # Joined: 05 Dec 2005 Posts: 126

According to most web pages I checked:
From the hairline to the bottom of the chin is divided into 3 parts..
1/3 The hairline to browline..more or less..
1/3To the bottom of the nose
1/3To the chin
The eyes are roughly 2/3 of set up in the face although individuals vary.
The drawing is a template..to set the basics..and it is correct.
The medieval artists and incongraphers did place the eyes that high..and made the noses narrow and the ears a bit lower..
That is Medieval Proportion..
Take a look at the drawings on the tutorial listed below..the second set down has the position of the eyes in the circles
http://www.anticz.com/heads.htm

Brake Check · member Member # Joined: 05 Dec 2005 Posts: 126

J Francis..
Thanks Again
It is correct but I mentioned below on the page that I moved the second and thrid circle
I reposted with the 2nd circle correctly placed..
http://www.hartake.com/page4.html
NOW from the top of the second circle to the bottom of the cihin..the eyes are 1/2..but from the top of the first circle (hairline) to the chin..the eyes are 1/3 down or 2/3 up
That should be clearer now..

Brake Check · member Member # Joined: 05 Dec 2005 Posts: 126

JFrancis
I posted the ray trace on
http://www.hartake.com/page3.html
I am upgrading the site..The ray trace looks great..