[Lunatique]

I tried watching Chldren of Dune DVD set tonight, and both me and my wife were bored out of our minds. I've seen the David Lynch film before, and it too, was pretty boring. Now, I've never read any of the books, and I don't think I really want to. Having seeing two different takes on Frank Herbert's universe, and having both making me feel only indifference, I wonder if the books will be any different.

What makes me feel indifferent about the Dune universe is that I don't feel any emotions watching the plot unfold. I really couldn't care less who dies, who lives, who's evil, who's noble, and when there are no characters you care about, you won't care about the plot either. All that detail about the various cultures, political factions, character relationships..etc are just that--dry details. It's like reading a history textbook, devoid of emotions and sides you can either cheer for, empathize with, or even hate or dislike.

So tell me, Dune fans, what is it about Dune that you like? Educate me on this because I just don't get it.

[[Shizo]]

I just liked the game - Dune 2, that's all.

[StylesDavis]

i finally finished downloading that movie and wanted to watch it these days- thank you very much lunatique for spoiling my entertainment!!!





honestly, i only loaded it down because of spooges' baronpicures. i wanted to check out his inspiration...
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known as "ChrisNix" elsewhere.

[neff]

you did what? you d-d-download that movie? you mean via internet? *hugh*
omg you evil illegal hacker
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[[Shizo]]

He's not a hacker, he's a cracker! Know your internet lingo, muchacho!!! (j/k)
And i think it's the movie makers that got inspired by Spooge's work, not the other way around .. hehe

[Capt. Fred]

I liked the first dune book a lot, so I bought the next two in the series, but the second one I never finished. I put it down at some nuclear explosion of some kind, as it just didn't seem worth reading. I prefered asmiov's foundation saga.

I thinks it's just like what's your favorite food. if you don't like it, you don't like it. By me listing the appeals of my soup, you will not find it tastes different or better.

I know that for the life of me I will never be able to read lord of the rings, not for lack of trying. Fantasy stuff really switches me right off, and the idea of a whole middleearth-hobbits-and-wizards fantasy saga appeals less than a week's school detention spent doing homework. For me, much like dune for you, I am totally, listlessly bored with it. Magic? I can no longer use my brain to understand the world presented to me? Uh� WTF

[Drunken Monkey]

Mind crushingly boring sci-fi. Even the SCI-FI channel remake was boring. Like watching some slow French saga about 17th century noblemen complete with wigs, pantyhose and royal house intrigues. shoot me now.

Spielberg bought right to make Altered Carbon. Wich i hope gets made... I don't know if that kind of thing is for everyone, but it feels somewhat like 5th element minus the exagerrated humor. Just really cool adventure, lots of cool concepts. You guys should check it out.
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"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity" - Sigmund Freud

[Lunatique]

Yeah, I can't read LOTR either. I finished the first book, and I couldn't get past the second one, as none of the stuff in the book felt like they mattered--I had no personal stakes in their outcome, and everything was just so contrived and sometimes bordering ridiculous. Funny thing is, I grew up reading fantasy and sci-fi novels. I never got to LOTR until I was 30, and by then, I had already been exposed to too many excellent fantasy novels that are lightyears beyond the sophistication and depth of LOTR. It's exactly the same when I go back and watch films made many decades ago--most of them were just so primitive in their execution, as the artform of filmmaking was still immature then. Today's films are a lot more complex in every way, as the artform has evolved so much.

Drunken Monkey - You summed it up better than I did. It's like, WHY should we give a shit about a bunch of nobles that we can't empathize with? Does it really matter who gives birth to the heir to the throne? The little fucker will grow up into another noble we don't give a shit about anyway.

[[Shizo]]

I don't usually read books, but i want to suggest some that were written recently by a Russian author. His name is Boris Akunin, and he used to be a historian and specialist of Asian countries, but recently started writing adventure books about a russian detective in late 19th century. It's really f*cking great because he writes in old russian style, so at first i thought it was really written over a hundred years ago.

Unfortunately though, his books were only translated to French, Italian and Japanese.. Russian books are available online for free. But remember if you ever see a book by Boris Akunin you gotta grab it!

[DJorgensen]

LOTR and Dune are my favorites of all sci-fi/fantasy literature.

Yes, Dune had a lot of politics. But you must accept that politics is a fact of life, and for Frank Herbert to not go into detail about it would have made the story rather strange. The series was written amazingly well - it contains some rather interesting philosophies in an effort to refect what a possible future would be for man.

Same goes for LOTR. The Silmarillion - virtually a textbook on the history of the Middle Earth is not something that most people would likely want to know. And yet for those that are interested in knowing everything they can, it is very wonderful. Tolkien created a world based upon who he was and what he had experienced. The Middle Earth was a very complete world - Tolkien covered aspects that most people would not have given any second thought.

Neither of these two individuals were high action, high excitement writers. They are epical authors instead. To that end, their stories would be hard to compare to the market that is currently out reading books and watching movies. We are now more of a society that craves for the moments of action and tires of politics and detail.

Regardless, for those that read the novels and contemplate why the author included the details and what the consequences would be if one of the details were changed, the experience of reading these novels is quite different.
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[Lunatique]

[Jimmyjimjim]

Dune is a fascinating examination of the manipulation of religion by politics. I read all four of the books before going into the "House" series (which . Anyone looking for mature science fiction that doesn't mind a little obvious social commentary would enjoy them.

As far as the books vs. the movies, I always thought that they were pretty much unfilmable, as the books weave a tightly-knit plot around it's many characters. Dune is a book where even the smallest character is capable of a pivotal moment. Dune: Messiah is arguably the best in the series, IMHO.

::This nerd moment brought to you by Jimmyjimjim::

[Ragnarok]

I read the first book and watched the David Lynch movie, but I couldn't stand the sequels of the first book, don't know why.
From my point of view, Dune is a book about a planet. The main character is Dune itself, with its extreme ecology and the quest to make it something where humans can live. I always thought Muab'dib was just the bringer of change, because with him the domination of the empire ends and begins a new era where fremen will make Dune a place to live, instead of a big factory.
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"Ever forward, my darling wind." -Master Yuppa
Seigetsu

[Impaler]

The greatest accomplishment of the LOTR movies was that they were actually able to wring some emotion out of those textbooks.

But then, some people like textbooks. Some people prefer to watch the History Channel when there's a perfectly good British drama on PBS. There's nothing really wrong with either group; some people are fascinated by the human existence, while others are charmed to death by the mechanism of a scenario.

To that end, Dune weaves a beautifully engineered tale of intrigue and politics. That's it, but that's enough for a lot of people.

[Icannon]

I couldnt agree more regarding the state and art of movies, Impaler. There were voids in the concept and execution of older movies just as there are voids in the concept and execution of newer movies.. but these voids were\are of a completely different nature. But you are right, this probably belongs in a different thread.

As far as dune is concerned, the movies\mini-series are probably a pretty large contributing factor to the reason one might not enjoy the book. And on the contrary, considering the original dune movie is a cult classic, it is probably the reason some people would love the book. So I think it has much to do with how you're introduced to something. Stories and books are very personal to a lot of people, so I think the books or even the movies of lord of the rings and dune are tough sells by nature.

[Lunatique]

[Gort]

[watmough]

ya,im with Gort on this one......wow.

[Gort]

Rob, I'm still reeling . . .

I cannot imagine anything being beyond the complexity and sophistication of Tolkien's work. The appendixes are enormous - geography, socio-economics, languages - and that's just for LOTR. The same can be said for the Silmarillian, Unfinished Tales and others.
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- Tom Carter

"You can't stop the waves but you can learn to surf" - Jack Kornfield

[Jimmyjimjim]

[shft5]

I only enjoyed the original Dune(the book and movie). It involved fantasy, politics, and violence in one. The rest of them I won't bother reading because I don't believe I'll enjoy them as much.

[Nilwort]

I think that Dune is a story that is less about making you love the characters in an emotional or mammalian way, but more about presenting a world that could have been or that could exist sometime in the future. The story itself seems to be more concerned with giving only the necessary information like political alliances, possession of territory, scientific issues, descriptions of the environment, and a sort of detached, but sufficient explanation of the different character's thoughts and feelings. I think this is probably why you feel that there is no "hook" that grabs you in the movies Lunatique.

I know it's a clich�, but the movies aren't as good as the books. It takes not a whole lot of effort to watch a movie, but I find that when reading a book, you are more challenged and engaged in a way that the story becomes a part of you and gets mixed with your memories and experiences. I'm not saying that this doesn't happen at all with movies, but the experience seems to be more intense with books for me personally.

I enjoyed the Dune books (and the movies to a lesser extent) because I felt that the story became a part of myself or enhanced something that was already there. Dune is one of my favorite books because it provides a basic description of characters and events and your imagination is left to flesh them out into a more realistic picture. Dune was great because it mixed religion, science, politics, and the mystery of the unknown in a complex and epic way. So I think with the movies, you get less of the mental challenge and there is less participation on the viewer's part than reading the books.

Like most things in life, it really just boils down to what kind of person you are and what sort of stuff you like. I've always been interested in science and logical left-brained things in addition to having artistic interests and I think this sort of combination agrees well with Dune. I don't think the story was intended to be something that you could take in during one sitting, but requires you to actively participate with it and create it for yourself as you go along in order to enjoy it. I think this is probably true for a lot of things.

[sweetums]

Reading the Dune series is like chewing through a tree. It is long, hard, though provoking when you are lucky, and engaging/exciting at its best. I've read some of the books (like God Emperor) 2-3 times to try to make the best sense of the religious/political commentary and the sub plots of power, relationships, and values/passions.

It's like caviar. A somewhat acquired taste, that some take to, and some don't...
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Life is short. Expect nothing, enjoy everything.
That which does not kill you should make you wiser...

[notic]

at what point is chewing through a tree exciting?

I haven't even played dune or read the books or seen the series/movies, got no clue what so ever what the story is about.

I tried to listen to the Lord of the rings audio book, but it got boring because i've seen the movies, didn't really like the narrator as well.. i would want to hear it in english though. audio books in swedish are usually lame from my experience.