[derPunkt]

Man, does these days ANYONE uses the technique we do? I mean, I haven't yet seen a single person who doesn't smudge their but off. So I am just interesting is the original pixeling/ATLEAST working at pixel level, or is that SO-LAST-MILLENIUM.
Say something to them =)))))

[Loki]

Yes - it's quite yesterday ... pixelling is not necessary anymore, since nearly every computer nowadays supports high resolutions and 24 bits of color ... dude I was pretty good painting stuff with 8 colors in 320x200, but those days are definetely over ... kind of a lost art!

[tanis]

It just happens that sometime you've still got to do some pixeling, but nowadays it's almost useless pixeling a whole image. You've got bigger power in your machine.. use it..

[Funfetus]

Pixeling always seemed to be more about technique than art anyway. "I can do a more detailed copy of this Boris Vallejo painting than you can, and with fewer colors, too!"

Not EVERYONE is like this, of course, but...most...are.

And I've gotten into some silly arguments with pixelers who insisted that people who use Photoshop "cheat" because they use undo and whatnot. "If I mess up, I have to fix it with pixels. THAT'S skill."

Silly.

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Funfetus
iCE VGA Division
http://www.funhousedigital.com

[derPunkt]

No, well, I am aware that pixeling is gone, and you can do hellowa better stuff now than then. I was just reffering to scanning and useless smudging. Somehow, what I actually wanted to say is, ppl don't really care about that cute sharpness (which demoscene of course still holds as the standard).
Example, guy does a "nice" sketch on paper. Scans it, fills it with colours in Photoshop (of course in multyply layer =) and calls is Digital/Computer Art. That sucks, coz its not computer art. Its Simple. And you can't even say anything if some time was spent smudging the edges of that bloody black line. I am OK with if someone uses sketch as a reference underneath the picture if he is not skilled working with mouse/tablet.
Thats what I meant under pixeling, thats why CAPSED WORKING AT PIXEL LEVEL =)))I meant atleast 800% zoom and with small airbrush not 35pixels smudge =)
dP

[Acryl]

Well derpunkt ..
Pixelling for me is quite outdated .. just for fun i turn on gfx2 or if need to do something that needs an indexed palette .
Anyway I learned a lot pixelling pictures , because of the limitations that i had .
I think it strengthend my color sense because i had to make my own palette , and use the colors very specifically . Somtimes when you look at pictures that were drawn in photoshop you see an enourmous amount of colors on the screen which ends up to be a mess because the people doing this don�t think about the color composition first .
And pixelling gave me the patience to draw a picture .. when i needed several weeks for a pixeled picture i now finish a painted one much faster so i can concentrate on the details .. so for me pixelling is mainly a very good practice .

ehhh .. just woke up , sorry for bad english

acryl http://members.xoom.com/pointnpixel

[fragamite]

first of all: acryl.. your new "uriel" pic.. maaaan!!.. seriously, that's VERY COOL!! your best 24 bit yet? hope you dont mind if I zoom on that for the rest of day, trying to figure you out

err.. what was I going to say.. ehm.. nah, forgot it. been up 23hours studying for an exam.. hmm hmm hmmmm

\|/
>*< *ping*
/|\
oh yeah: I was going to ask if you old people (hehe ;P ) know of any good tutorials on pixeling techniques and methods? stuff like dithering and how to choose ypur palette.. it must be usefull for 24bit stuff as well.. otherwise it would be great if you guys could spit out something on how to do tiny details like eyes and stuff.. how to get sweet smooth tones.. (well .."dithering" )
blah blah blah.. I got to go home and sleep, bye thanx ciao haslatlapista bejbi :P

make skins not war
http://www.student.hig.se/~kp99aln

[sfr]

derpunkt and acryl, I agree with both of you - 24-bit artwork often appears lazy, and pixelling is/was great for practice. Pixelling really draws your attention to color usage because you can't just throw colors on the image on a whim - creating and modifying a palette takes some serious planning and forces you to have a much stronger idea of what you're doing.

In fact, I feel that I had a better grasp of my images when I was doing pixelling. I have to say I'm sort of ashamed of my new 24-bit work: it's smudgy, unsharp, the colors are out of control (everything tends to creep towards a particular ugly green), etc... Somehow I haven't been able to make use of the techniques I learned by pixelling.

So, that's my current artistic dilemma... I've been thinking that maybe I should try imposing some limits on myself: making a preplanned set of colors and then sticking to it, etc... But if any of you guys have some advice on how to overcome this "24 bit curse", I'd be happy to take it =)

Saffron / Sunflower

[Tabun]

Hmm I don't think pixeling is redundant yet. I really like to work zoomed and with the smalles tool sizes on details, and clearly visible area's. They make the difference, i hope :]

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Ciao, Tab

[Joachim]

Hmm, I think this discussion must have been going on since the beginning of computers.

I just wanted to comment something to derpunkt ( I don't know if this is your opinion or not ?!? ). To scan a picture and then color it "sucks", I just can't help it, but I totally disagree. To take a photo or whatever and shadow and color it with lotsa details can be good, but it is the main shapes and the understanding of colors, composition, etc that separates a good artist from a bad one.
Ex: A Disney (or whatevever good company) animator often works with rough sketches and simple coloring, but still some of them got more quality and understanding into a few simple lines than most artist on this planet will ever have.
So, computer art or not, it's not the amount of details but the quality behind the basics that matters.

But, that's just my opinion, though. I know a lot of "scene-artist" have always found the ability to copy a picture as good as possible the best kind of art there is, but I can assure you that noone will ever pay money for that.

-Still, I respect every point of view, so don't go mad at me !!

Joachim


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DonBarrum ;)

[micke]

I would just say:
why use the hard way of creating a picture
when you can get the same result by "smudging"your butt off. The only reason people were pixling was because there was'nt
any other program available that could do something else. It's only a medium like using oil based paint or acrylics. I've been
in the Amiga Demo scene myself but moved on when better programms were available. It's
not a matter how a person do things, It's theresult that matters.

-Mikael

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-Mikael Noguchi-

[Muzman]

in any art there's always a contingent that equates difficulty with quality. The technique that is the hardest to do makes the best art etc.
I think it's BS myself.
Whatever techniques you employ, if its not used imaginatively or to interesting effect it's all for nought.
Artistic effect and technical appreciation are two very different things

[Affected]

I don't know.. if I work from scanned sketches (When I'm too lazy to re-draw the image) I paint basic planes of shading and colour first, so I can't say there's any difference...
Maybe I didn't understand what you meant, fragamite?

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Affected
http://affected.cjb.net

[derPunkt]

OK, I'll comment on something I already did.
1st. I am not talking about PIXELING as a techniqe in 8 bit, I am talking about using 1pixel brush to do your stuff. Since most of the ppl here don't use it, I decided to start this topic.
Micke-Smudging your butt OFF, is baad. I don't say its cheating it LOOKS bad. And you if you were in A demoscene would know that (remember what smudge tool did in GFX2 or Dpaint) yuck. same thing with Pshop.

Joachim - look, doing and inked pic, scanning it, filling it with colour and calling it an DIGITAL image SUCKS. Big time.
I have seen some, hey ALOT of ppl do that.
Its just coloured in computer its not DONE on it. Get the point? =)

Fragamite - thats the thing I am talking about

[immi]

Petar, I'd have to disagree. The comics industry practically revolves around the process which you said sucks. I think coloring on the computer is a perfectly valid form of art, and yes, like anything, a lot of it is bad or amateurish, but by the same token, a lot of it is quite good.

[Funfetus]

I don't think he said the process sucks. I think the point was just that he doesn't believe that that should be called "digital" art.

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Funfetus
iCE VGA Division
http://www.funhousedigital.com

[fragamite]

too bad that most retouched photos look like .. crappy retouched photos! check out the latest archived gallery at http://gfxzone.planet-d.net to see some extreme examples of this.. (there's alot of good pictures in there too)

tip: if you got a pencildrawing you'd like to paint up with ye olde computer, don't draw on top of it. Instead start over again looking at the pencildrawing as reference.. it's a bit more work but you'll end up with a picture with a much more clean style; 100% digital.. though I really like rough shit as well though

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frag attack http://www.student.hig.se/~kp99aln

[Shar]

If anyone's interested in pixelling a good place to talk about it is #pixel IRC channel on IRCNET. More about it on http://pixel.scene.org .
Other digital artists hang out there too.

Well I guess many people here already know about it. Just thought I could mention it ;).

Sh^ar

[Joachim]

Ok, derpunkt. . . . I see what you mean ..

But, do you really care about if it should be called digital art or not. . . who cares about that ??? It's like on paper, if something should be accepted as art or not. That could be like an endless discussion, but honestly it really doesn't matter. The most important is the fact that it is good craftmanship or not. And, do you mean that a sketch is bad craftmanship before it's detailed to death ?

About what you told micke. Offcourse smudging in the way of smoothing in the old depaint just fucks up a picture. But I think Micke ment that how you do a picture or how rough it is doesn't matter, as long as the depth, shadow, etc is on the right places. For example, do you think that craig Mullins pictures are worthless before they are 100% finished and detailed ? He smudges in the beginning, but the pictures has still alot of depth and quality in form of "digital" art. And the scene thing, I pixeled alot of very detailed pics from original paintings some years ago, but I find that much more easy and "non-learning" than composing a good drawing to be colored or brushed or kept as just a plain sketch. So, you shouldn't put artwork into classification, but respect any style for what it is and the understanding behind it.

I think this discussion is starting to become pretty stupid, but I just had to comment, sorry !

Joachim

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DonBarrum ;)

[derPunkt]

Hey, Joachim, wait, I know who you are
You did gfx for "Outside". Haha.
Man I loved those pigs.
And other Melon stuff.
And yes I am going to stop this discussion, coz it seems noone actually reads CAREFULLY what I am saying.
So, ding. I am off.

[Acryl]

And the whole had my name in the headline ..
cool ..

=P

acryl http://members.xoom.com/pointnpixel

[Joachim]

derpunkt,

hehe, yes I agree that we discussed a bit above each others head. So, no bad feelings, right ?!?

joachim

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DonBarrum ;)
web: http://home.sol.no/%7Ejbarrum/

[Sc00p]

I'm sorry, but if I draw better with a pencil rather than my mouse, I'm going to do quite a bit of scanning. Coloring ends up being 90% of the process anyway, so I consider that penciled/inked work quite digital. That, and I like to draw on a sketchbook in places other than my room, where my computer is. To think that a scanned image, then colored, is NOT digital, is quite ridiculous. Come to think of it, even trying to pigeonhole any art in such a way is even more ridiculous.

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Rene Antunes
www.nytro.org
[email protected]

[n8]

hmm...ok...ive waited and waited....wtf is demoscene??...after the info ive gathered...im thinkin its some kinda arty thing that used to be done on the amiga??

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Woo0boggyboggy!!