[Havocbean]

Hey everyone. I am starting a new project, it will be based on the POL emulator, for the game Ultima Online . Right now, I am only currently looking for Digital Artists. For those of you who do not know what Ultima Online is, think Dungeons and Dragons. This is not a paying position, but it will be a great resource to add to your portfolio and it will give you experience that you need if you take Art seriously. If you are interested in using your skills for an online medieval fantasy roleplaying game, send some of your work or a url of your portfolio to [email protected]
Thanks, and I hope to work with you soon!
-Havoc

[Chruser]

No offense, but that's not nearly enough information for an artist to consider helping you out. An "online medieval fantasy RPG" isn't exactly a new concept. You need unique ideas, lots of them, and enhance them to be able to get an artist to help you out, especially since you offer no payment for it. Unique ideas work very well for luring artists into your trap.

And the fact that you have 1 post might scare people, and make them think that the only reason that made you come here was to make a quick advertisement, and move on to the next board. "The more people who see it, the greater your chances are of success".

Sorry for the harshness, I'm just putting things down the way they seem. I have had a long experience of people trying to take advantage of me and others in various ways (no, nothing like THAT!), so I tend to assume the worst possible case at once to avoid possible disappointment.
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[Havocbean]

I never meant this post to be the definitive resource for the artist
It is very general at the moment, as the project is trying to find a general artist. All the information we can offer you on these boards is that it is a fantasy role-playing game.
Thanks

[bearsclover]

Wow, I scare myself. I am so psychic. Before I even opened this thread, I knew that there would not be any pay involved. I also somehow mysteriously knew that there would be some mention of how good of an "opportunity" it would be for the artist, to, you know, give away their work for free.

Now, mind, I'm not saying that you aren't on the up-and-up, Havocbean, or that this might not be a really nice little jaunt for the right artist. Because I suppose that it is a real possiblility. It's just that most artists have been inundated with people looking for free work, and who tell the artists that somehow they are being done this huge favor�to have the opportunity to work for free. Basically, it's "Give me something for free�I'm doing you a favor by taking your work for free."

::shrug:: But, I suppose that sometimes it is a good deal for the artist. But I also think that artists have to be careful�they get asked to do free work all the time, and it's always supposedly such a great "opportunity" for them, somehow. Except that sometimes it's not. Sometimes it's just someone who is too cheap to pay artists.

Don't want to sound too harsh, just thought you might want to know that this sort of offer is nothing new.
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[Havocbean]

I'm sorry, I didn't really expect these kind of replies. I don't know if I came to the right place for this. I thought that perhaps since artists, for most major jobs, need an extensive portfolio, as well as varied, would like to take this as an opportunity. I'm sorry if this has been an inconvenience to the forum in any way.

[stacy]

I was going to start with an apology for having to take a negative stance. But on second thought... I don't think so.

....OPPORTUNITY ???... The ONLY OPPORTUNITY here is YOUR opportunity to hook up with God given TALENT

We have before us, another in a seemingly endless stream of no-talent God damned bums; READ=> "the company boss", with the world's greatest idea to make millions or who already has millions and thinks anyone can do "art" and it's worthless (utill he needs it.)

All they ever need is a small crew to do all the work FOR them.
And... at the very bottom of that pile is the LUCKY, LUCKY ARTIST who will have the PRIVILEGE of working on a big, professional, very important, sophisticated project that belongs to someone else. And all they have to do to be part of such an important effort, is work for FREE.

Yet another in a long line of VERY "important" people, discounting the artist's UN-DUPLICATIBLE CREATIVITY, to the level of expecting US the REAL talent to work for nothing!

Come back when you can afford $150 an hour for our studio time, or maybe you'd like to start out on a budget. There are several people here who can do you a corporate identity package with camera ready copy for a process, duotone, spot color, single color and black & white version of your company logo for $1,200.


-------------------
HERE, I'LL EVEN TEACH YOU (for FREE) HOW TO CONTACT FUTURE EMPLOYEES:

"Hey everyone. I am starting a new project, it will be based on the POL emulator, for the game Ultima Online . Right now, I am only currently looking for Digital Artists. For those of you who do not know what Ultima Online is, think Dungeons and Dragons.

This position is key to the success of our business. we know how important real talent is, so, the starting salary is $48,000/yr.

We take your art seriously. It is what the public sees, it is US.

If you are interested in using your skills for an online medieval fantasy roleplaying game, that will benefit me , send some of your work to [email protected]

Thanks, and I hope to work with you and not steal anything from you soon!
-Havoc the bum

[Havocbean]

Stacy, this is not a paying project for anyone. I am not being paid, nor are the others involved. This is a small-project we are trying to develop for free, so that others may enjoy a game at no cost. We are spending hours of our own time coding and developing. We are not doing this for a profit. You're acting like we are trying to "cash in" on other peoples hard work, which is not the case. I don't know how I offended you in any way. If it was something I said, without knowing it, I am sorry again.

[dhood]

He said he needed an artist. Thats all. If youre not interested, then dont respond. Dont start flaming people, just because you dont agree with something.

[stacy]

It would have helped if you'd made it clear at the start that no one's getting paid out of the deal. At least in the short term.
Hope you find someone to work for nothing.

Good luck.

[Surfbum072]

I have just now registered, but have been lurking for a very long time.

This is crazy. You are penalizing someone for asking for help on a free project? The entire thing is free, and just because artists are ripped off all the time they are the only ones that should be paid? I mean really. This is something that comes off as him asking for a small favor, from people who love to do what he is asking for. I do not see at all how this could be taken offensively, expecially since he has stuck around this forum to back himself up once attacked, which does show that he is indeed reading the feedback, not moving from forum to forum as someone earlier suggested.

Now about this 'Multi-million' dollar game, I really would have hoped you guys had the tact to ASK first before just flaming away like you had all the information you needed. This game, Ultima Online, is already completely developed, and has been out for quite a while. People set up their own servers to run this game, and it is ALWAYS free, not free to start and then they start raking in the cash...
I know all this because I used to play this game.

Now that said, Havoc:
You did seem like you were saying that you were doing them a favor. That really isn't fair, since technically they would be doing some great work for you in exchange for nothing.
If you work on your 'pitch' a little more, I am sure it would be to the benefit of everyone. Good luck, really, finding someone to give you a hand.
Mike

[bearsclover]

[Impaler]

Haven't a lot of people been hired into the game industry for what was basically free work? And might game companies be impressed by individuals who devote hundreds of hours to the perfection of their craft pro bono publico?

Those are rhetorical questions; don't bother answering. The lot of you in this thread who feign rage over the slightest implication that someone might want help for free aren't doing a lot to improve the myth that commercial artists care more about the money than the art.

Face the facts, people. The majority of the board members here on sijun aren't pulling down the big bucks at ILM quite yet, so what's the harm in someone asking for help on a mod? Portfolio padding never hurt anyone, and an employer won't not hire you for doing volunteer work.

Granted, this havoc went about querying artists completely wrong. He made no reference to 1) experience and past projects completed 2) team motivation and drive and 3) the strength of the UOL mod community. Nevertheless, check yo'self before you check someone else.
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QED, sort of.

[bearsclover]

[V Shane]

Bearsclover, I really have to agree. No other field I know,can you ask for freebies and be taken seriously without looking like a loser. Maybe its the "games only" genre that does this.

But I pretty much ignore these offers. Often I email the inquierys back telling them I do take Paypal an Paypal DOES take credit cards. Pay something, if you really really don't have the funds, find investors. If you can sell yourself (like your doing here) get a full presentation going.

Don't rely on random luck and taking any artist you can get, and yes, RESPECT is a huge part of this (us creatives call it artistic integrity).

Trade.....trade is good, be creative yourself and come up with a plan, everything you need to accomplish your goal. Most posts like this are whims, and I for one don't work on a whim.
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[bearsclover]

V Shane, you are right. It IS about respect.

I have been doing more traditional art for a long time, and people often have their hands out. Can't speak for the gaming community, maybe it's different there.

But go to any other art community, ask some of the more veteran (or not-so-veteran) artists about this, and I am pretty sure you'll get a similar response to what you're getting here.

One one board some artists started sharing tales of how people were always writing, saying, "Give me some of your work." Not, "I really can't afford to pay right now, but I love your work. I know it's a big thing I'm asking, but could I have a copy of your work?" Nope. Just "I want some of your work. Send me some of your work." It happens all the time.

Other artists are solicited to do original work for a specific project, but when the mention of pay comes up, the person who asked is amazed that they will be expected to pay. Why is this? What possible reason would an artist�a stranger�want to design someone else's logo, or someone else's t-shirt design? The people asking for the freebies didn't give any reason why the artist should do it for free. They simply asked for a freebie, as if it would be obvious somehow that the artist would jump at the chance to do it. That's bizarre.

Just recently I had someone write to me, needing to use a high-res version of one of my drawings for a non-profit print project. They never mentioned paying me. The subject of money never came up. They were polite, I'll give them credit for that, but they acted so astonished when I made a mention of pay. They mentioned being non-profit, which was why I quoted them a very low price for my work. I was confused, because how could they possibly think that I wouldn't charge? But they said, "Oh no, we can't pay" as if that was the last thing on their mind.

If they had explained that they realized that my work was worth something and that they realize that artists usually charge for their work, but they have a limited budget or elaborated on their financial sob story, then perhaps I would have let them use the graphic for free. Perhaps. But there was none of that. They just wanted it and they didn't think that it was worth mentioning how the work was, you know, worth something, but unfortunately they couldn't afford to pay anything.

Sure, they were non-profit, but I assume that they've had to pay for the printing, materials, and production of the print project. Maybe other people gave them some freebies or discounts (I, too offered them a discount), but certainly they didn't just put out their hands and just expect the printer to provide free paper, free printing, free labor? Did they expect the Post Office to give free postage? I'm sure they did not. But they just assumed that I'd give them what they wanted for free, because I'm an artist.

Artists want respect just like everyone else. We want it to be acknowledge that our time and efforst are worth something. But too many people don't get this. They just expect us to hand over anything they want. They are often astonished when we won't. You are right, V Shane, in what other field would this be so common?
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Madness takes its toll - please have exact change.

[tj333]

This site in this link deals mostly with pen and paper games but the article has some suggestions on how to get cheaper artwork.
But even it agrees that it will likely come down to paying someone unless they ae as interested in your project as you are.

http://www.indie-rpgs.com/articles/14/