[eyewoo]

I generally work at around 5000 x 3200 pixels. I use a computer with 1.5 gig dual processors, 2 gigs of RAM and Win XP Pro.

I've just installed Painter 8 and find there are long lags when using many brushes. A brush at large sizes either doesn't work at all or gives me an "out of memory" message. If I select a large area with the selection tool, the system just sort of turns to molassis... Is this normal or might there be a configuration problem of some sort.

The same large brush sizes, etc. in Photoshop run very well...
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[spooge demon]

this is pretty normal as far as I can tell. Some brushes are unusable at larger rez. You can try to turn down the "feature" aspect of a brush and this can help.

block in small or in PS to get things going?

don't use RIFF!

Heeelp, Jin

[eyewoo]

hmmmm.... so I guess that's Painter's next hurdle, brush speed at print resolutions... They've done pretty well with the layers thang. Pretty nice the way they are working now...
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[Jin]

Mr. Mullins asking Jin for help? No!

I can't suggest anything much more than has already been said, except that I'll add a little more detail gathered from other artists who say this is how they work (I have not worked this way except to do just a little testing so I can't vouch for this method from personal experience):

Calculate backwards from your final dimensions and resolution (ppi) to find the dimensions and resolution (ppi) for each of the two previous stages.

For instance, if your final will be 5000 x 3200 pixels at 300 ppi, cut those numbers in half for the middle stage, then cut them in half again for the first stage.

First Stage - Work with smaller dimensions and lower resolution (ppi) to block in large areas of color.

Second Stage - Increase both dimensions and resolution (ppi) to add large details.

Third and Final Stage - Increase to final dimensions and final resolution (ppi) to add fine details and touch up.

Theoretically, you can then work with smaller brushes at each stage, though I'd suggest doing some serious testing to see how the earlier stage brushstrokes look when the image is enlarged and resolution (ppi) is increased.

About adjusting the Feature slider (which is not available for all brush variants):

If you do this, realize that you'll have to find a happy medium between too low bristle density and too slow brushstroke rendering. In other words, decreasing bristle density should speed up the brushstrokes but if bristle density is decreased too much, the brushstroke may not be what you're after, after all.

For anyone reading this who doesn't know where the Feature slider is, open the Painter 8 Brush Creator, click the Stroke Designer tab, open the Size section and there it is.

In Painter 7 and Painter 6, it's in the Brush Controls palette's Size section.

Wish I had a better answer. This problem comes up all the time!

If you have any success with the three stage message, please let us know.

Thanks!


Jinny Brown
Painter Classes at TutorAlley Forums
(new registrations and Painter Classes on hold due to family medical emergency)
Tutorials and Painter Info at PixelAlley

[jfrancis]

Or maybe work in final rez tiles, and split it together later? A hassle; I know, and ugly at the seams, but it's a thought.

Anry Nemo http://www.anry.ru/eng/gallery/gallery.htm seems to get good result with Painter at high resolutions. In my own case, I had the feature values turned up way too high for a while, and got very poor results, but I was able to find a compromise I could live with.

[Jin]

That's a thought, jfrancis.

Maybe you could run Anry's Tyrael Knight script, pause it, then check to see what brush sizes and other settings he used. If I recall correctly, it was recorded in Painter 7 and I'm just guessing, with the default brush library loaded. I think he used the Round Camelhair variant.

From watching the script play back, it seems like most of the painting was done with a relatively small brush size.


Jinny Brown
Painter Classes at TutorAlley Forums
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Tutorials and Painter Info at PixelAlley

[eyewoo]

His work is wonderful. It does look as if he uses small brushes, essentially painting pretty much as if he were using wet paint. Also using brushes that don't require a lot of CPU time...

I was hoping to do large watercolor looking strokes, which do need a lot of CPU power...
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[Riven]

Thanks for tackling this issue! This has been one that has really put me off Painter 8. Perhaps I'll give it another go using Jin's suggestions.

I called Corel about this issue and they were "surprised" (like no one had ever mentioned that working at high-resolutions basically brought the brush engine to a halt).

I asked them when version 9 would be out - no plans yet

[Jin]

Phil,

Have you ever tried painting on the Canvas with another brush variant, for instance a Pastels variant, then using the following two commands from the Layers palette menu?

Lift Canvas to Water Color Layer
Wet Entire Water Color Layer

Depending on the current Water Color variant and current Paper, the results can be widely varied, from subtle to extreme. It takes some experimenting, and if your Canvas is large, and the Water Color variant is a complex one, it can take quite a while for the "wetting" process to be completed.

I've used it while experimenting with ways to paint watercolor skies and also to soften pixelated edges by diffusing them, on images that were enlarged too much to be useable otherwise.

It's a neat feature that I don't think people use enough, if at all, to realize how much can be done with it. I'm sure I haven't figured out all the ways it might be used either.


Jinny Brown
Painter Classes at TutorAlley Forums
(new registrations and Painter Classes on hold due to family medical emergency)
Tutorials and Painter Info at PixelAlley

[spooge demon]

Phil, I have some ideas for a PS man who is trying to not get gored by painter.

One thing I thought about when first trying to use painter was to make some brushes that behave like PS brushes. I know them, so I can start there and then modify one variable at a time. I could not do it. Nobody else seems to be able to either. If anyone can, please speak up! You would think that with 1000 interacting variables you should be able to get just about anything you wanted, but it seems not the case. The artists who use painter seem to get a few brushes and techniques that work for them and that�s it. Nothing wrong with this, it�s what every artist does.

But the idea that Painter simulates natural media is a little misleading. There are so many things you can do with paint that you can�t do digitally. It seems to me that painter uses texture quite a bit. I like to glaze and wash to adjust the color and value of shapes, sometimes in subtle amounts. I want to leave the texture alone. You can do this with PS and how its brushes work, you can do it with watercolor and acrylic cause they dry and you can go over a shape and alter ONLY its value or color. I think this is one reason why I have a tough time with oil paint, unless I am working slowly and can work it up after many drying times. Working wet into wet from life, you work over it and things get muddy and overworked easily.

Oh yeah, sorry to ramble, how to get that PS glaze thing going in painter- make a new layer and set the opacity of the layer to %10-20. The results are a lot like PS, a little lighter or darker without more painter texture thrown on top. I can�t figure out how painter deals with opacity and pressure in the normal way. I just tried this idea with what Jin was suggesting with the watercolor layer. Duplicate the BG, lift it to WC layer, turn down opacity, and the WC effects are not as overpowering.

Sorry if you figured out this already, I just figured it out myself.

[eyewoo]

Thanks Jin and spooge... I'm out of town right now, checking in on a public library computer. Now, I can't wait to get home and play around with painter again... I'll let you know...
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[eyewoo]

Back at the pub library... Well... couldn't wait. I happen to have my Painter 8 disks in my attache case, so I loaded it up on my wife's laptop to try out that "lifting and wetting" layer procedure. Interesting... Could really provide some of the looks that I was looking for with Painter... Thanks Jin... very cool
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[Jin]

spooge,

In Painter, if you don't want Paper texture, there are a few ways to avoid it. Here are three:

1. Go to the Brush Creator, Stroke Designer tab's General section (Painter 8 ) or the Brush Controls palette's General section (Painter 6 and Painter 7) and change the variant's Subcategory to something that doesn't include the word "Grainy". You can then save this as a custom brush variant to use as needed.


2. Use a default variant for which the Subcategory name doesn't include the word "Grainy".


3. Maybe the easiest way: Create a custom Paper using a selection made on a blank white Canvas or a white Layer. Then make that Paper active when you don't want texture. To create a custom Paper texture:

Open a new white Canvas.

Click the R key to activate the Rectangular Selection tool and drag a squarish selection.

In the Papers palette (Painter 8 ) or the Art Materials palette's Papers section (Painter 6 and Painter 7), choose Capture Paper from the menu, then give your custom Paper a unique name not already used by Painter. I named mine, oddly enough, "Blank White - No Texture" in case it wasn't obvious it was blank white.

If you have Painter 6, Painter 7, or Painter 8 with the 8.1 patch installed, you can then drag that blank white Paper icon onto the Painter screen to create a Custom Palette. With a single click you can choose that Paper whenever you want. If you have your other Paper icon there too, you can switch back and forth easily without needing to open the Papers palette all the time.


Jinny Brown
Painter Classes at TutorAlley Forums
(new registrations and Painter Classes on hold due to family medical emergency)
Tutorials and Painter Info at PixelAlley

[Jin]

[ultrahsu]

I don't know if its been discussed already...
But painter 4,5,6 all had good watercolor brushes, 7 killed it!
did they revert back to 6 styles with painter 8?
Oh, and spooge, the grass in that one painting is insane, describe the process?
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[eyewoo]

ultrahsu... really... If the water color brushes are better in 6, I might consider rolling back... What's your thought on it Jin?
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[ultrahsu]

painter 6's water color brushes are awesome. It doesn't get so grainy and also its not as heavy handed and the colors blended much better without getting to black so fast. Someone forwarded me a painter 7 tip for building a water color brush to emulate 6's. I've tried it and it still doesn't look/feel the same...

Question for the painter expert.
I had installed painter 6 and 7 on my xp machine on 2 separate machines.
They worked fine for like 2 weeks and now when I try to launch painter 6, it says not enough virtual memory to start it? This happens even after reboot and I have a gig of ram and lots of free space on my harddrive... Any ideas?
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[agflash]

[ultrahsu]

thanks for the info agflash. I guess I should try 8... is 9 coming out soon?
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[Tomasis]

then hope that 9 will have the old interface

[eyewoo]

[Jin]

[Jin]

[eyewoo]

Thanks Jin...
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[agflash]

[Jin]

[Jin]

agflash,

Yep, it does do that.

I painted two brushstrokes, one overlapping the other, and where the top brushstroke passed over the bottom one, there were white things along the top brushstroke's edges.

Is that what you meant?

In any case, it's good to know what makes it happen.


Jinny Brown
Painter Classes at TutorAlley Forums
(new registrations and Painter Classes on hold due to family medical emergency)
Tutorials and Painter Info at PixelAlley

[ivan]

yeah, im having problems with painter 8...well i dont know how to use it, can some one give me some good tutorials?

[Jin]

Hi ivan,

Painter 8 Tutorials:

Painter 8 Tutorials on the Corel Site

Painter 8 Tips and Tricks on the Corel Site

Painter Tips on the Wacom Site

Tutorials and demos for Painter 5/5.5 Painter 6, Painter 7, and Painter 8, Painter 7 information, Painter Developer John Derry's Painter 7 Visual Guides for Water Color, Liquid Ink, and Keyboard Shortcuts to download in PDF format, and custom brushes for Painter 6, Painter 7, and Painter 8 to download at PixelAlley

Spend some time looking through the Painter User Guide just to get a general idea of what's in the chapters. Then keep it nearby and look things up when you have questions. If you can't find something, or you do find it but don't understand it, post an appropriately titled new thread here and ask.

Make the User Guide your friend. It won't be long before you'll know the terminology and where to find things and it'll save you a lot of time and frustration.

If you don't have a hard copy User Guide, inside Painter, go to Help > Help Topics and there you'll find the Painter User Guide in HTML format.


Have fun!



Jinny Brown
Painter Classes at TutorAlley Forums
(new registrations and Painter Classes on hold due to family medical emergency)
Tutorials and Painter Info at PixelAlley

[eyewoo]

Jin,

I've spent several weeks now working with Painter 8 and I'm afraid I have to put it back on the shelf. I love the effects and new interface. It is really evolving into a reasonable and logical tool, but it just is not set up to work with high resolution images... and mine aren't really that high - 5000 x 3200 pixels. For example, at that size, using the "antline" selection tool just brings the whole thing to a virtual halt (no pun intended).

I certainly look forward to later versions and especially faster computers. I'm only putting it on the shelf, not in the trash...
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