[Matthew]

Hey

What do you think of this picture?, it�s made with Acylic and I call him Lord Mcgrain.



Matthew

[Matthew]

Ok I added another picture.

Matthew

[Capt.FlushGarden]

Good to se you painting traditionally aswell!

I have a few crits for you, First of all look at the shape of his head, can you se that the forehead might be a bit too big? The eyes are too far apart, a tip, the space between the eyes should fit another eye. The chin is a bit small and it looks like his cheeks ar a bit soggy, I know that people really can look like this but try to make the chin bigger, and manlier, also I think you ara a bit off with the colors, I think it's missign alot of red, it's basically orange yellow toned, with some grey paiont here and there, now I can almost bet that this is forbidden, don't paint shadows with black, paint shadows with a darker version of the color being shaded. Think of where blood goes in the face, Have you ever seen the girls running inside when it's very cold outsidem and theyr cheeks are all red? put red around the eyes, and the eyes are too white, look at a persons eye, it's not even near white.

his shoulders are way too wide and it looks like his left shoulder is higher than his right. one final crit, I've heard that when a person is looking at a portrait, the eye scans the silouette of the character, and then zooms in on the eyes, then the nose and mouth, so what do we do? You work harder on those parts where you think the eye is going to fall, spend as much time on the eyes as you do on the rest of the whole portrait, it's very important. Have you ever heard Spooge say "just do eyesockets and call it a day" ? that's because he's sketching and doesn't want to spend as much time on the eyes(correct me if I'm wrong here). but if you want eyes you have to work hard om them.

In short: more red, try to get all the colors in there, you now have blue and yellow, add some green and red please.

Good start and I look forward seing more stuff with more colors man

John

[Anthony]

In my wisdom I have created a paintover based on Flush's critiques. Mmm!

_________________
-Anthony
Carpe Carpem
http://www.anthonyfransella.com

[Matthew]

Capt.Flush - Ahh yeah I didn�t think I was gonna get any replies, thank you. :) Those are very good crits and you are right, I am staying with too few colors and I think that goes both for my traditional and digital painting. I remember Spooge said the thing about eye-sockets but it�s very hard to just leave it as sockets, as what I think.
Once again, now I know what I have to work on, Thank you :)

Anthony - Yeah, that is great. :) hehe , he looks like Jay Leno, beautiful, thank you for the over-paint. :)

have a nice day
Matthew

[spooge demon]

Were you looking at an old painting when you did this? It looks like Ludwig Van or Liszt.

All I wanted to do here is illustrate my point earlier about eyes. In general, the eye is in a socket and behind eyelashes and also under a brow, and is shaded most of the time. It is very common to paint the whites too white. But it is a general problem as well. The eyes are what people look at the most, and so people paint them bigger and with more contrast than is really there. So you have to learn to look really hard and see just what is there and what is not. It will surprise you. I am learning to do this slowly.

So you can see that I painted the form of the brow and socket with care, and if you do that, your eye fills in the eye. I did exaggerate this a bit for effect. But you have to know the generalized forms of the head to do this from your head.

Try not to work out of your head at this stage, you are not learning as much and reinforcing bad habits. Draw from life (your hands if models are scarce) or master copies. No photos yet. You have to be much further along to use them correctly, and it will turn you into a shape artist that will limit you further along. Understand the forms that light acts on to create the shapes that you see. That is the order, not the other way around.

Here is a project for you. Take any artist you like that paints academically, and do a forgery for me. Post your copy and post your source. If I can tell which is which, you are not done. You have to learn to subject yourself to what you are seeing, you are not getting that yet. This is a good exercise, and a good way to look at how another artist thinks.

Don't use more colors, that is the last thing you need. Use fewer

[Capt. Fred]

I like your lord guy allot, yeah, it's cool.

I must say that I don't see his forehead as being too big or his shoulders as being a problem. Nor do I find his jaw 'not manly' enough.
But you've already had a lot of good criticsm so i thought I'd take this opportunit to tell you that it's one of the best pictures I've seen from you, it's really good.

[Matthew]

Spooge - I can see what you mean with the eye-sockets now.
I have read through the Figure drawing book with Andrew Loomis and he said that tones and objects shouldn�t be faked so the use of reference from life or good copy was very important. I have finally understood that now so use of reference will be something I am gonna do all the time.
For this painting I looked at myself in the mirror and also two other pictures I was inspired by but I didn�t wanna copy too much so I made my own version, I am very inspired of old paintings so I will take on the project and make a forgery.
I actually bought myself a renassaince book with artists like Leonardo and Domenico Ghirlandaio, Domenico was so good and his paintings were truly so beautiful but I don�t think I could do a forgery of one of his paintings thou.
I am posting the picture used as a ref inspiration beneath, the Painted Portrait is on one of my Haydn Albums and I don�t know who painted it, it doesn�t say and the picture is from a Vogu issue. Thank you for the over-paint and also for explaining the above mentioned things, Thank you. :)

Capt.Fred - One of my best?. :) Thank you Capt.Fred. :)

Ok and here are the reference inspirational pictures:



Once again a big thank you.
Matthew

[Capt.FlushGarden]

Hey spooge! Is it really true he should less color? I mean "fewer" colors? I don't really understand why, because I've seen lots of artist add green and blue and red everywhere? Was I totally wrong?

[AndyT]

I'm guessing Craig said that because Matthew should concentrate on values first, and different colors later!?
_________________
http://www.conceptworld.org

[Matthew]

I think the main problem with my paintings and stuff right now is that I am working way too fast, mainly an hour or two on the most stuff that I am doing.
So I guess a forgery work should get me occupied for a longer time on one piece.
But I have finally understood the eye-socket thing, I am thinking of the eye as ball with a ball in it, yeah kind of how it works. :)

I have thought about this with other colors Capt.flush, is that when other surfaces bounces from one material to the skin? or does skin and facial material react differently when more than one light-source is used?

Does anyone know what kind of lightsource that is used when doing portraits? is it a lightsource in front of the face of the person that is portrayed or is it a light from the front side?

btw, Lord Mcgrain is now property of my mother, I gave it to her on Mothers day which was today here in sweden. :)

Thank you for the continuence comments.
Matthew

[Anthony]

With portrait photography you have to think what you want to accentuate on the individual. With a young lady, you'd want to use soft umbrella lighting, or some equivalent, to give her a radiant, soft look, and smooth, curvy. With a man you can use more hard shadows, to accentuate his bone structure, if he has any. :] You don't want the lighting too dramatic, because portraits aren't about a "good" photo artistically, they're about the person in the photo. Keep at it!
_________________
-Anthony
Carpe Carpem
http://www.anthonyfransella.com

[ChiaNi]

you earn my respect Matthew. I see your work getting better and better.
_________________
Holly sprite

[Matthew]

Anthony - Thank you for the tips there Anthony. :)

ChiaNi - Thank you ChiaNi. :)

This is starting to be a very educational thread, beautiful.
Maybe we should start a book project on Sijun too, only Sijun members
and a book full with tips and pictures, what do you people think? :)
The book could be about common mistakes, it would surely be a good learning source. Or maybe there are too many books about the subject, anyway.

see you in the forum and keep the Sijun Forum alive. :)
Matthew

[jasonN]

Hi Matthew, you're really improving well. It's great to see. The reason skin tones have various colours in it is because of what you said. Colours reflecting and bouncing etc.. But also because skin is very transparent. There are also other factors such as cool/warm colour interplay. Some artists purposely use warm and cool colours to influence the way the eye reads the image. Eg, warm colours are used on objects that are supposed to be closer and the cool colours are used for the receeding shapes. Anyway, I'm sure the others can expand on what I've said much more. Good luck with the painting.

[Capt.FlushGarden]

Oh I se hahaha, of course! bit by bit

[spooge demon]

My thought is to simplify and break down the process of learning into smaller steps. Learning about transparency of skin before basic drawing will just confuse, I think. Learn form (as a sculptor would see things), how light works on form, how value describes this, then about color. Then fancy strokes.

Matthew, in addition to the master copy (which will help media control and learning to look Very Carefully) get Vanderpool or Bridgman. Leave loomis alone (they are coming to burn my house now). You can get both as Dover editions. Copy these drawings. As you copy them you cannot help but see and think of how they work.

Go to http://www.vilppustudio.com, he is really solid in the way he thinks.

A radical suggestion, get any of the drawing books by Jack Hamm. Yes, he was a cartoonist, and a very good one. As with animators, he knew about form. One of the finest storyboard artists I ever saw said he learned to draw by copying Jack Hamm books from cover to cover. I did not understand the reasoning behind this at the time; I thought he was pulling my leg.

If you look at good caricatures you will see that the forms of the head have been exaggerated, not just the shapes. You have to deconstruct the head in your mind and reconstruct it. Very difficult to do successfully. Once you can think this way, the head you see in that fashion ad will be very different than the one you see now.

If you stick with copying the shapes you see, you will never be able to draw out of your head, and you will be very limited to what you can do with whatever reference you might have. So do it right from the start! This is the real reason to me for drawing from life, so you CAN�T sit there and copy the shapes you see. You are forced to make your brain think about what is going on in space. If you don�t have the time, money, etc to draw from life, draw your hands or in a mirror. Don�t become another casualty of photography. Learn to use it well by drawing from life first. And don�t trace anything. You have to be really advanced to trace well. And tracing and claiming you did not is like the 4 year old covered in chocolate with a belly ache saying they didn�t eat the cake. It is painfully obvious. There is nothing wrong with it at all if is done well, but if done too early in development it will just delay learning anything.

BTW, this is the stage that I am at right now. I am struggling to understand form and how to depict it on a 2-d surface. The illustrator training I had was very much get some ref, stylize it in some hip way, dodge the photographers attorney, call it a day. Luckily 10 years of job experience and earlier ID training finally got me off the golf course back into the life studio before it was too late. Maybe it is. Don�t make the same mistakes.


ps, yes, I thnk this is the best one you have done, and I like that you are really trying to learn.

[AndyT]

[Matthew]

JasonN - Thank you JasonN, some really good tips there with colors. :)

Spooge demon - Wow, thank you for keep coming back and explain stuff and also for giving your experience too me. I know what you mean with Loomis and his heroic definement of things and bodies.
I will see if I can get hold of Bridgman and Vanderpool. I have seen Vilpu�s stuff before and his stuff is truly amazing.
Once again thank you, you are a cool guy Spooge. :)

Matthew

[Capt.FlushGarden]

Matthew:

"I have thought about this with other colors Capt.flush, is that when other surfaces bounces from one material to the skin? or does skin and facial material react differently when more than one light-source is used?"

I'm not really good at skin and anatomy stuff, but I know that the human is in fact a bit transparent, so skin would have different colors depending what's undere it? and when sun hits nose or ears they get all orange and glowy, like when you put your hand over a lamp and it goes all red. Also I think I read something that skin in shadow is more reflective...I dunno hehehe...

[Matthew]

Yeah that explains when other colors hit the shadow, Wow we have material in this thread for a beginning of a book. Thank you for keep giving me tips and stuff Capt.Flush, you are the dude :)
Once again a big thank you to everyone who has given me tips and comments in this thread.

have a nice day
Matthew