[ceenda]

This is possibly in the wrong forum, but I couldn't figure which one was the most appropriate to post it in.

Anyway, I recently decided to go back to traditional art in order to try and improve some areas that were lacking in my digital work.

Here's some recent ones:

http://www.ccir.ed.ac.uk/~nanderso/crap_1.jpg
http://www.ccir.ed.ac.uk/~nanderso/crap_2.jpg
http://www.ccir.ed.ac.uk/~nanderso/crap_3.jpg

I have no idea why:

a) I don't realise these are totally misproportioned at the time.

b) Why I continue to think they look correct days afterwards, except when I mirror them (surely once you see the mirrored version you'd automatically realise where it's wrong when you see the unmirrored version again).

I don't know whether I'm just out of practice or whether I've been relying too much on flipping the pictures in Photoshop/Painter rather than having a disciplined approach to getting it right first time.

I'm guessing I've not smacked my head, because surely I wouldn't be able to figure out that they were wrong in the first place, right?

The guys on Conceptart seemed to think that it was related to the angle I was holding my paper at. However, I've corrected this so that I'm facing the paper at 90 degrees and I'm still getting the same problems in proportion. What worries me is that I find it immensely hard to know whether it's correct at the time. Whether it's tiredness, poor attention etc.

Anyone else had this problem? I'm hoping it's correctable.

[Matthew]

I thought everyone had problem with this, I know I have, so I flip my sketches back and forth.
I remember that I didn�t have this earlier but that could be that I didn�t know or wasn�t looking at my picture correct.
I usually have a bigger problem when it comes to oil and I have just figured out that it could be the fact that I am painting on a flat horizontal desk, maybe it is the same with drawing, maybe better to have a desk that is more slant. I haven�t tested it yet but maybe helps with a slant desk.
( I hope slant is the right word, couldn�t come up with the right word ).

Matthew

[Max]

First off, your stuff isn't that bad and that unproportioned.
I had, wait, still have, this problem too.
Somtimes I dunno if my pics are right or wrong.
Is this eye too big? - stuff like that.
But I think if you can't see the problem after a minute or so there is nothing extremely wrong.
Maybe some little proportion mistakes but nobodies face is 100%

correctable?
sure it is! copy images, draw much from life - fast skeches to get the first three strokes right. Just the overal shape...at least I do so and I improve this way...maybe there#s some better way I dunno.

Good luck

[YVerloc]

Wow, that's a really consistent. The consistency of the distortion makes me think the folks at conceptart.org are on the rigt track. Seems like a mechanical thing to me; paper angle, desk angle etc.

However, I have experienced the same thing for purely psychological reasons. I've noticed (with my own drawings) that a distorted image sometimes feels more 'right' to me than an undistorted one. I sometimes get so excited about a subject I'm drawing, that I have trouble limiting the material to a single viewpoint. I'll get so excited about the shadows on the undeside a ledge, for example, that unconciously I'll warp the view a little to allow me to squeeze the underside into the view somehow. This is particularly aparent to me when I'm trying to conjure up a view of something architectural from my imagination. Sometimes, I'll whip up a rough block model in 3d before painting an image. After I'm satisfied that the block model is an accurate representation of what I had in mind, I'll try to grab a screen from the viewpoint I had in mind -- only to find that it doesn't exist! In my mind, I could see all this stuff that I can't see from any one single viewpoint. It feels like such a letdown.


So I guess what I'm saying, is that a distorted view can feel more right sometimes. A distorted view more closely represents, perhaps, one's mental picture of a thing.

YV

[Drew]

Ah, very interesting. The skew was immediately obvious. Are you drawing with your entire arm? Are you making basic shapes before filling in detail? Have you tried drawing with your left hand? (From the angle of the skew, I feel sure that you're right-handed.) Perspective studies might help as well.

Good luck, I'm sure you'll overcome this rather quickly.

[RJPJR]

Before going into fine details and shading your image you should sketch out a real rough draft and using the good old rules of proprtion you should be able to layout all the aspects the picture correctly before you begin shading.

Also maybe your not looking at your source enough. I've seen enough people draw from real life and instead of looking at what they're drawing they tend to second guess where they THINK everything should be instead of where everything REALLY is!

Keep on practising you should get the hang of it soon enough..

[Drunken Monkey]

1. I am not good or anything, but i skew when i am looking at the drawing from an angle while drawing it. But it seems you fixed this. Strange though, every time i look at your pictures from bottom right to the screen they look proportional. So uh... move your head to the upper left a bit more maybe

2. Not planning the head out before you draw makes it all over the place for me. Looking at some really good people's demonstrations made it clear that planning is even done when you are really good. So ignoring it is not longer an option.

3. Doing one drawing in first half an hour to an hour and then quitting because it looks lame is as i found out a bad approach. It seems impossible to produce anything good within first hour, then something clicks and stuff starts to look 'ok'.

I am also finding out that being mentally lazy doesnt work - meaning you have to really think about every line.
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[aphelionart]

hey ceenda, i hope you don't mind me warping your sketches... i just wanted to show how much the skew affects the image. i have the same problem, that's why i love using the computer. i also had some time on my hands....

anyways, maybe this is kinda interesting.. to get the images on the right, i skewed them all by 12 deg Horizontally, -8 deg Vertically, and rotated them 15 deg (probably slightly off, but a rough idea). I used these to show at the bottom how the paper probably looks from your perspective when you're drawing (well, that's the idea heh). Isn't that cool? I think with a little conscious effort to remain directly above the paper, you'll be fine.

[Lunatique]

I believe it's because your bias of being left/right handed. Your bias affects the way visual data is interpreted by your brain. So, when you flip it mirrored, you are seeing it without the bias, and spots all the mistakes immediately.

Also, the angle you draw from is a factor too. Try drawing on a slanted surface--like a drafting table of a slanted lightbox.

I don't know if it's even possible to correct it--since I think it has to do with your brain, not your skills.

Before I used a computer(1998), I already was an avid flipper. I had built a custom lightbox, and I would do a sketch, then flip it and draw my corrections on another sheet through the light box--and repeat the process if I needed to.

[ceenda]

Wow!

Tons of info. Thanks guys!

Matthew: Yep. I'm planning to do some oil painting soon and I'm hunting for a mirror to use.

Max Kulich: Yeah, I am woefully bad at doing regular sketches and need to practice more.

YVerloc: A similar thought came to my mind that perhaps, subconsciously, I preferred certain proportions and was over-riding the right-hemisphere and tricking myself into thinking that the sketch was right.

Drew: Yes, right-handed. I didn't do much planning before starting on these. (well, apart from a 2 second... "yep, looks right"). Time to start measuring with the pencil again.

RJPJR: Definately, I forget that sketches need a good foundation. I see people like Isric etc. who seem to just go straight in and draw the main lines as apposed to people like Feng who do alot of rough shape designs first. Both are great at it, but I need to practice the main shapes.

Drunken Monkey: Yeah, I think I was quite lazy with these and just plowed straight in and wondered later why they looked out of proportion.

aphelionart: Wow! Great! I realised that we have one of those curvy fronted desks at work (where I did these sketches). The monitor (which was showing the ref) is actually at a different angle facing me as I drew these. I gotta check this out.

Lunatique: The lightbox sounds like a pretty cool idea. I remember a tutorial that was doing the rounds about building one.

[Vhy2]

I agree with Lunitique; it's probably your natural bias in how you see.

You can get around the bias by measuring. If you're working from life you can use a plumb line to get a true vertical ine.

I hold my drawings up to a mirror sometimes, but the lightbox sounds like a good idea too.

[dr . bang]

Ceena, i think its because when you draw these thing, you sit behind your drawing, therefore you will draw it good the way you see from that perspective. But once you scan, you'll see the perspective from the TOP and it will surely look distored from this angle.

BOOM
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[MadSamoan]

Try using the abstract rhythm guides that Ron Lemen (Fred Flickstone) uses for instructing.

[Citizen Cow]

[wycliffeart]

Another thing that might help is to use construction lines to set your vertical and horizontal axis. I know I have had to overcome distortion problems as well and I found this to be a big step in doing it. Also the placement of detail with an ever roving eye; always looking for distortion and for the correct angle to things as you draw them. And of course time and practice.

I have found once you get in the habbit of taking the steps to prevent distortion, then it doesn't matter what angle you draw at, your drawing will be right in the end.