[Coaster]

I just saw a documentry on the reintegrating schools in afganistan.. it started off making it look really good but then it showed parts from the lessons... it showed the grade 2's subtracting with bullets and the teachers telling them how great their god was to invent all that math and stuff was.

Their textbooks where based on the 'great fearless afgan army' destroying russia. Guess what country decided it would be smart to spend 41 million dollars on out dated propagandic textbooks meant to help them win the cold war instead of something else like say... food or repairs for the damages that country actually caused on them? It ryhmes with Munited Mstates

This is why we might as well pollute because the world is only getting hopelessly worse and we might as well enjoy the last 30 or so years of fresh, uncostly air that we have. (by enjoy I mean enjoy the privalege to fuck it up before some airhead with too much power *couch*georgebush*cough* either charges money for it or poisons it all to destroy weaker countries.)

No surprise that whenever I get bored and end up planning out a new economical system on the back of some wrapper with a sharpie it revolves around the concept of no single party or person having more power then anyother.

Sorry I had to vent but, theres no one I can vent too without them either saying "Your stupid (and then punching me)" or "how cute he watches documentries". I wish I had 5 minutes alone in a dark alley with all the world leaders and a steal pipe.

Ugh. I'm going to get an ulcer before I'm in high school....

[Sleepi]

meh, who controls afghanistan now anyways? At least it's not still the Taliban and hopefully it seems like they're making some progress. If they're not then it's probably cause they don't have the money, or they're not spending it the right way, which is often the problem. This whole teaching kids patriotism and religious stuff in school is pretty typical of countries with a crappy economy trying to get a firmer grip on the population. The US needs to know what they're funding when they give them money I guess....ugh, i have no idea what I'm talking about...someone else say something...

[Impaler]

You worry too much, and take yourself and everything around you FAR too seriously.

I mean, last week you were hypervenilating over feeding the homeless at a church.

Now, I'm sure you're smart, and you're very convinced of the fact that your reasoning power dwarves mine, but, take a chill pill, homie. You find out one HEAVILY opinionated fact from a documentary, and you go into convulsions.

The world sucks; it has ever since we figured out that rocks were hard, and that we could trade a stick for a log. It's going to suck when you die, and it's going to suck when your kids die.

As for Afghanistan, do you think you can just set up a national education system in 5 months? Establishing a national school system in Afghanistan is foremost; content is second. We had public schools for 100 years in America before we stopped segregation of black and whites. Even American history books are subjective; most kids still believe that Americans won World War 2, and that Abraham Lincoln freed the slaves with the Emancipation Proclamation. You can't expect old textbooks from a totalitarian regime to be technically accurate.

Shirts come with wrinkles. You have to iron them out before you can go to the dinner ball, and Afghanistan just got back from Dillard's.

[ May 06, 2002: Message edited by: Impaler ]

[iByrn]

Hey, you're not in their boat, are you? You're much better off than they are, so what are you complaining about? Who cares if some Afghan people are getting shat on? It's not your problem. Anyway, for all you know, the media's contrived the whole thing for their story of the week. They always need an angle, you know.

Indeed, that was one of my more self-centered statements.

[Coaster]

I do agree that it can't be improved at once, but its times like when a party of more power manipulates one that needs help to the advantage of the powerful one and the disadvantage of the other. bleh.

I guess I shouldn't worry about THIS but I really don't like when power is abused in this way, and when it is, don't be too surprised when a plane suddenly decides to fly into a building.

Its true life sucks now and it will later, and since theres no hope you can't blame someone for making a poorly spelt vent now and then when theres no other conversation to sour.

But I can't stop thinking about an economy without a single party in any predominate power..

Stick for a log eh? damn, I got hosed.

[edraket]

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Who cares if some Afghan people are getting shat on? It's not your problem.

And they will get pissed again and fly a few planes into a few buildings. But hey..you probably won't get hurt so it's not your problem right?
Do you really think anything improved the past months? The Northern alliance is basically just a Taliban that lets people shave their beards. That whole bullshit of how the US freed the afghan people is just another lie to make the world think they are cool. Well not very many people are buying it. Except the americans it seems.
Do you think the muslim world is suddenly a happy puppy? No.. they are more pissed and they have been shown that they DO have a power over us.
You can kill a few but it won't solve the problem.

And if I understand Coaster correctly the propaganda he was talking about predates this whole war and dates back to when the United States gave afghanistan weapons so they could attack the soviets.

Coaster: If this stuff bothers you and you feel that you should do something about it then do so. You can't go around hitting the world leaders. But you can make a difference. Maybe a small one but why wouldn't you do anything because you can only make a small difference?. If everyone that is not satisfied with the world would only try to make a small difference the world WOULD be a better place. Instead most people just bitch and never lift a finger to improve things.

[Pixie Nim]

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And if I understand Coaster correctly the propaganda he was talking about predates this whole war and dates back to when the United States gave afghanistan weapons so they could attack the soviets.

almost spot on. America did give arms to Afganistan so that they (both the US and Afganistan) could fight the Russian occupation. In fact, the US were giving the arms not just to any old Afganistanis, they chose the Taliban. It was the US who armed them in the first place - and the reason? - because the Taliban were the most violent, unstoppable and fanatical relgious group Afganistan had to offer - the US knew it could count on the Taliban for all sorts of nice things, like suicide bombings.
Of course, the US and the Taliban won, and kicked Russia out...

You reap what you sow.

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I wish I had 5 minutes alone in a dark alley with all the world leaders and a steal pipe.

sadly, although I agree it would be a very fun venting exercise, I think in the end it would make very little difference....


Pixie

[Endymia]

quote: I wish I had 5 minutes alone in a dark alley with all the world leaders and a steal pipe.

I like that one....

Pixie Nim... Great quote!

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You say "Pyscho" Like it is a bad thing.

[[Shizo]]

Ya! HA! Mister Putin would use his KGB tactics on your ass, and i've seen it works very good indeed.

Sovie occupation was for a good cause, they were establishing schools, factories, and generally helping out Afghanistan (so what if it's commusism structure, it would wear off in 20 years anyway as in rest of Russia). The reason why Afghans resisted it is the biggest cause of war as always - religion. Since communism basically is against religion, the elders went "WEEEE!!!! Lets killem all! allah smardublah!"
And then you know the rest. You might not know that the course of war was greatly changed once USA sent over Stingers to use against Soviet flying tanks - Mi24 and other aerial tools. Conclusion: If USA didnt support Afghanistan, USSR would establish a nice living there until 1991 when communism falls. Would probably make then more educated and less warlike too.

[iByrn]

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Originally posted by edraket:
And they will get pissed again and fly a few planes into a few buildings. But hey..you probably won't get hurt so it's not your problem right?

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Now you're getting it.
Of course, if I do get hurt or killed, it's not like reality as we know it will crumble into nothingness, is it? Hehe.

[Vesuvius]

quote:

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Originally posted by Sleepi:
meh, who controls afghanistan now anyways? At least it's not still the Taliban and hopefully it seems like they're making some progress. If they're not then it's probably cause they don't have the money, or they're not spending it the right way, which is often the problem. This whole teaching kids patriotism and religious stuff in school is pretty typical of countries with a crappy economy trying to get a firmer grip on the population. The US needs to know what they're funding when they give them money I guess....ugh, i have no idea what I'm talking about...someone else say something...

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at least it's not the taliban? one of the major new powers is a warlord, dostum, and international reporters recently discovered that he mass-murdered over 300 surrendered, unarmed taliban.

[edible snowman]

i don't see whats so bad about a little propaganda. if our news sources had just a bit more of it, we wouldn't be having this conversation because everything would be ok with the world. do you want to see our ignoble destruction coming, or do you want to be happily oblivious until it gets here? either way, i hope it happens after i die.

[edraket]

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This whole teaching kids patriotism and religious stuff in school is pretty typical of countries with a crappy economy

American kids having to swear loyalty to their flag every morning comes to mind.

Sorry..just had to kick that one home.

[zak]

i recon something BIG is brewing together in the world, and im afraid that we ARE gonna live long enough to see what it is. all those wars going on everywhere, the middle east, afghanistan, all those other places we never get to hear about, and the US always seems to have something to do with it. i dunno about you, but if you ask me, something is gpoing to go bang very soon and we cant do shit all about it.

[Svanur]

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I wish I had 5 minutes alone in a dark alley with all the world leaders and a steal pipe.

I doubt the world leaders would change anything, since they are most of the time controlled by their ministers. Take Bush for example, I doubt that he made those decisions all by himself.

[Pixie Nim]

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i don't see whats so bad about a little propaganda. if our news sources had just a bit more of it, we wouldn't be having this conversation because everything would be ok with the world.

......
You clearly don't really understand what propaganda actually is. It's a distortion of the truth, usually for the ends of the current Government who's in power.
For example: during the second and first world wars, both the Allies and the Germans released masses of propaganda which directly contradicted each other - both sides saying how evil the other one is. Of course, history now tells us who was really evil. But at the time, do you think it would have been right to assume that this propaganda was the truth?
For example: the fact that as soon as Tony Blair changed his tactics on Journalism etc, the Sun newspaper changed which party it backed in the UK.
For example: how the Sun advertised that world cup match between Scotland and England - on both sides of the border, directly contradicting each other, running directly opposing headlines. Despite the fact that it's owned and run by one company.

This is, of course, why such a big fuss was made over Princess Diana, for example. The press made a big deal out of it - it was pure propaganda. Ditto the September 11th thing, if you don't mind me saying. No-one cried when thousands of innocents were killed in the UN bombing of the Balkans - in fact Uk tv barely mentioned it - the government were covering their asses. But when it's the civilised world - and lets face it, the UK is basically America's lapdog - everyone makes out like it's the greatest tragedy that ever happened. (No offense to anyone who may have lost someone on that day - I just feel it was blown out of all proportion, excuse the pun).

It seems stupid to trust the press. You only have to ask yourself what their motivations are, and it should be obvious how biased they are. If you haven't worked out that you shouldn't believe everything you see on tv yet, especially the news, maybe you should get out more... or read a book, or something.

Pixie

[zak]

respect to pixie nim. i totally back you.

[edraket]

There is plenty of online resources that are supposed to give a more objective view on the news.
But they often just go very much into showing juicy facts of corruption and stuff.

But yes..Following the news seems very pointless sometimes since all it does is tell you what the general public wants to hear (what sells the newspaper) objective truth seems to have very little relevance.

[Sleepi]

actually, propaganda is really not a distortion of the truth, it's just information that is trying to promote someone's idea or cause, whether good or bad. I agree with what you said I just wanted to point that out. I don't see how anyone could think that untruthful propaganda could be good, it simply allows the people who are spreading the propaganda to shape your opinion to their advantage ... therefore you elect their party.

edraket: I didn't know you do that in the US, that's pretty weird I guess. The US does seem to have a tendency to teach kids patriotism and I think it has more to do with it just being overall more on the rigth...chya know. I think I meant to say countries with dictatorships and that are less democratic than most tend to teach more patriotic propaganda stuff...so I guess that would mean that the new afghani gov't isn't all that democratic, at least not as much as developed countries for sure.

[Ian]

every generation on earth has thought at one point or another that their's would be the last.

[edible snowman]

i was being sarcastic. if the government filled our country's news with propaganda we would think everything was fine; therefore, there would be fewer conversations like this.

[ May 10, 2002: Message edited by: edible snowman ]

[mjmcchesney]

Now, if you read De Monarchia, by Dante Alighieri, you'll see a very systematic and postulate-driven method of having peace on Earth. That is, having a single, unified, temporal government. Theoretically it would work--perhaps we as a species have degraded to the point where even the hope in such a piece is hopeless, however...

[Awetopsy]

I have come to the conclusion that most people I meet on the net and in the rest of the world are very unhappy people.

Everybody seems to have almost given up entirely at even trying to have a better life... or trying to find one.