[travis travis]

What are your opinions on what themes ran strong through the 90's, and of what you've experienced of the 2000's. This pops up in my head from time to time, and the 90's seem to have so little personality. Very unaffecting times. The only thing major was the internet/everyone online - and the novelty of that wore off pretty fast. But other then that they just seemed very melting pot. People pretty much doing their own things, sliding under the radar, the youth recycling old sub-cultures or not having much of any.

It still seems like that. Lack of any trend, cultural movement, anything. Everything is recycled, half-assing it, clone like. Am I wrong here, or do these seem like times which don't have much in the way of identity? Which to me is very interesting when you consider how totally generations seemed to be defined before that.

[travis travis]

here's something I just thought of - what if the 90's were just an embarrassed and congenialized 80's?

It seems kind of like it. Instead of selfish ego masturbation we get apologetic political correctness and new age thoughts' shallowest heights yet(this time it's corporate). Instead of gaudy presentation and new art we get filters and clones of clones.

but maybe political correctness is the worst of all that. fear does tend to make things mute and grey. poor 90's. At least I had fun in spite of them, cause I think they had very little spirit as their own decade

[wayfinder]

uh, hello? the end of communism and socialism in europe?

[Impaler]

Pfft. Who cares about that, wayfinder?

Homosexuality is cool.

Technology is cool.

Prosperity is cool.

Rap is cool.

Gangs are cool.

The 80's sucked.

Meh. I would rank the 1990's as one of the most memorable decades in American history.

[travis travis]

I was thinking more in terms of american culture wayfinder, sorry.

and yeah the 80's sucked, but as far as having their own sort of image - that they did.

[Unsound]

Vanilla Ice, MC Hammer… uh… I don’t want to think about it.

[wayfinder]

travis travis, it's not like the end of communism had no impact on the us. the 90s were a decade without a real enemy for the US. well, that's not the case any more, is it?

[Sukhoi]

Nirvana and the whole grunge scene reused the ancient rockstar/idol thing from the 60'ies and 70'ies, is that what you mean by cloning?

Now that I think of it I find it hard to define the 90'ies at all. Propably because I was growing up and was all confused and searching myself. Which makes it hard to take note of such insignificant and paramount things as 'trends', hehe.

I dunno....teach me, please!

Sukhoi

[Nilwort]

^ he does have a point...

{edit} damnit.....I meant that to be pointing at wayfinder's post...

[ April 20, 2002: Message edited by: Nilwort ]

[travis travis]

well nirvana, pearl jam I'm down with.

but other then grunge - and grunge being kind of an anti-thing then a thing - what types of art/styles did the 90's spawn? I'm just curious cause I can never think of much
- well actually there's some stuff, but none of it seems to have lasting power

wayfinder, hmmm maybe the fall of communism did affect us... in making us a more apathetic people then ever.

[xino]

saying the 90s has no identity is a little clouded at least from my perspective...there's a lot of significant changes in the 90s which have already been written about in books...

the information age

not once in our human history has information been so readily available or so widely used in culture...

to paraphrase a line from a movie "a hostage taker takes the life of one hostage..then another..bam bam bam...one right after another....this is not 30 years ago...if it happened right now it would be one of the biggest stories from boston to budapest"

think of another time in history when any individual in this world from any continent can watch something as atrocious as a plane fly into a building killing thousands live...much less hearing about it the same day and not having to wait until a messenger on horseback to arrive...although I do admit that the beginning of the information age has been taking place for more than just the 90s...

the 90s also showed us (the american public at least) that you can take on the govt. and it's officials and actually win...

no one cared much about the govt. in the 80s or ollie north would have been booted out of the military...if it happened in this day and age we would've seen heads actually roll over that one (iran contra affair)...

the 90s also showed us (at the children of the 80s and 90s) that we don't have to block ourselves into a certain group...much the opposite of the 80s..conformity wheter it was punk conformity or the yuppie conformity thrived then...

today that's the opposite...today we've proved that you can buck the system and still become popular or rich or whatever...you can succeed from not being one of the conformists...art especially proves this...(trendwhores notwithstanding)...there will always be trends..but now in this day and age being different is actually cherished instead of being looked down on...those few and great people who shine without having to wear a suit and tie to succeed in the global economy...

I think the 90s have also been the turning point for the entertainment industry as a whole...take independant films...I don't remember many 80s indy movies getting recognition back then unlike they do today...there is probably an indy festival going on right now for instance...music today also can have many genres and sub-genres and be successful without having to be pidgeon-holed into a certain category...rap has become the most popular form of music in the 90s (whther we like it or not)...every form of techno has also taken a stranglehold of the industry and made execs look at individuals with spin table expertise and see them thrive...almost every movie nowadays has at least one form of techno in it...

that's not to mention acting has taken great leaps and bounds in the last decade...

compare denzel washington's performances (any of them) and for instance judd nelson from breakfast club...you can see a major difference...or to be a little more delicate look at mel gibson in braveheart compared to his work in lethal weapon...you can see the strides he's made...and this goes for all actors..

art has taken great leaps forward as well...all forms of it...I don't remember seeing much digital art in the 80s outside of film
I would classify the 90s as the information age AND the individual age...whether for bad or worse...the individuals and information are more important today than ever in our history...

but to say that the 90s had no identify is way too clouded for me

[Basement bound]

Trav- we just got out of the 90's and to a major degree still living the 90's. So, for us we will probably not see the effects/identity of the 90's til like '05. Things have to do alot more change at this time before that period looks different.

The 80's did not suck. It was just fucked up. The 80's were like a bad haircut, you would like to shave it off, but that would screw things up more. You just let it grow out. The 80's were a time of finding an identity with the change and freedom gained socially from the 70's

[strata]

the black album... hot damn

[Awetopsy]

I think the world gets worse with every decade.

1994 - OJ Simson murders his wife and gets off scott free. The story dominates the news for more than a year.

2001 - Terrosists fly airplanes into the world trade center and knock down both towers, killing thousands. 6 months later hardly anybody even talks about it anymore. (no to say it isnt talked about but nowhere like the way people were talking about OJ 8 years ago.)

With every decade we become more and more complacent. We dont care anymore. We see so much blatent corruption that it wears us down and we lose interest.

This world is going to hell in a handbasket.

[ April 22, 2002: Message edited by: Awetopsy ]

[xino]

well I totally understand your arguement..and I used to believe that myself...until I looked at other past decades...

60s to 70s - almost everyone was a hippie under a certain age...perhaps it was a mass following the crowd?...I know for a fact alot of people didn't do it because they believed it..they did it to fit in, find drugs easily, etc.

very few actually led the movement of what a true hippie was but most people were using rhetoric just to be part of the in-crowd...

the 80s...well that's a little harder to pinpoint but certain groups back then didn't really have a voice at all...excpet maybe for the yupies and the rich who got even more money during this time....

and don't forget the poor who got poorer in the US

the 90s taught us that you didn't have to follow someone else's lead..that you could go off on your own and actually make it in the real world without confining yourself to any one group or to any group at all...that was the point of what I wrote...

[travis travis]

quote:

---

Originally posted by xino:
saying the 90s has no identity is a little clouded at least from my perspective...there's a lot of significant changes in the 90s which have already been written about in books...

the information age

not once in our human history has information been so readily available or so widely used in culture...

to paraphrase a line from a movie "a hostage taker takes the life of one hostage..then another..bam bam bam...one right after another....this is not 30 years ago...if it happened right now it would be one of the biggest stories from boston to budapest"

think of another time in history when any individual in this world from any continent can watch something as atrocious as a plane fly into a building killing thousands live...much less hearing about it the same day and not having to wait until a messenger on horseback to arrive...although I do admit that the beginning of the information age has been taking place for more than just the 90s...

the 90s also showed us (the american public at least) that you can take on the govt. and it's officials and actually win...

no one cared much about the govt. in the 80s or ollie north would have been booted out of the military...if it happened in this day and age we would've seen heads actually roll over that one (iran contra affair)...

the 90s also showed us (at the children of the 80s and 90s) that we don't have to block ourselves into a certain group...much the opposite of the 80s..conformity wheter it was punk conformity or the yuppie conformity thrived then...

today that's the opposite...today we've proved that you can buck the system and still become popular or rich or whatever...you can succeed from not being one of the conformists...art especially proves this...(trendwhores notwithstanding)...there will always be trends..but now in this day and age being different is actually cherished instead of being looked down on...those few and great people who shine without having to wear a suit and tie to succeed in the global economy...

I think the 90s have also been the turning point for the entertainment industry as a whole...take independant films...I don't remember many 80s indy movies getting recognition back then unlike they do today...there is probably an indy festival going on right now for instance...music today also can have many genres and sub-genres and be successful without having to be pidgeon-holed into a certain category...rap has become the most popular form of music in the 90s (whther we like it or not)...every form of techno has also taken a stranglehold of the industry and made execs look at individuals with spin table expertise and see them thrive...almost every movie nowadays has at least one form of techno in it...

that's not to mention acting has taken great leaps and bounds in the last decade...

compare denzel washington's performances (any of them) and for instance judd nelson from breakfast club...you can see a major difference...or to be a little more delicate look at mel gibson in braveheart compared to his work in lethal weapon...you can see the strides he's made...and this goes for all actors..

art has taken great leaps forward as well...all forms of it...I don't remember seeing much digital art in the 80s outside of film
I would classify the 90s as the information age AND the individual age...whether for bad or worse...the individuals and information are more important today than ever in our history...

but to say that the 90s had no identify is way too clouded for me

---

But the thing I see as far as diversity goes, is that the 90's were a time when there was a lot, but that didn't necessarily mean individuality. There were the yuppies, the skaters, the goths, punks, hippies, all sorts of stuff... but it was pretty much based on the past. Other then that is was just mainstream - Gap kids. But it was all mainstream I think. That's a point my teacher made in my class on literature and social issues - you purchase your sub-culture at the mall these days, there aren't really cultures. It's like the 90's came to a head where more then ever ways we identify ourselves became genres of style. To me it's the most disaffected period of the last century, an apathetic amalgamation of the decades before.

in some ways - that does spell more individuality, because you don't have to concern yourself with being a 'type' so strictly, and you can wear sub-culture fashions while having your own beliefs. But the other side of that is... BOREDOM. It's a big grey world when we all take up the philosophy of shades of grey.

as for basement's point that we need some time to see it in perspective, maybe so. but then that makes me wonder if we only idealize the past and give things more prominance and meaning then they had.

[edraket]

Well it's kind of hard to compare. The 90's were the first decade I experienced as more or less "aware" being. And I spent most of them growing up.
So it's pretty much impossible to compare since the rest I know is from tv or history books.
I'd say the fall of the communism was one of the big things..history wise.
I don't really see what that has to do with socialism though. In holland at least socialist parties still have pretty much the same amount of votes. Maybe the dutch view of socialism is a little bit different then the rest of the world or something.

For me what was important was the rise of computers as more that big calculators which resulted in what I currently do for a living and hobby as well as finding my "soulmate" and marrying her.

[ April 23, 2002: Message edited by: edraket ]

[Basse_Ex]

A little message to all you people who claim that nothing happened in the 90's:

Dear Gawd, doesn't it get boring hiding out in your little hole in the ground?!?

Come on, dare you take a peek? It's actually quite nice up here...

[travis travis]

you have a point basse. I admit that the things I'm looking at are more of a superficial overall view of a culture rather then life per se.

[Basse_Ex]

Well, this overall view-thingie is a bit absurd, especially when we've just come out of the nineties.
Of course many of us won't look kindly upon the nineties right now. We're bored of the nineties. We've spent 10 fucking years in the nineties, which is the absolute maximum time any human being can spend in a decade!

But... the fact remains that a lot of significant things happened in the nineties.