[Poxin]

JOHN KAMINSKI CommonDreams.org - Friday, November 9, 2001 http://commondreams.org/views01/1109-09.htm

The USA Patriot Act, now passed and the law of the land, has
eliminated the Constitutional guarantee of probable cause when
investigating a crime, and now allows the police at any time and
for any reason to enter and search your house, your files, your
bank account and not even tell you about it.

Are you a patriot? Well, the fact of the matter is, you are whether
you want to be or not. But are you an American or a mindless
corporate stooge? Well, that's another question.

The recent passage and signing of the Patriot Act has effectively
nullified at least six amendments of the Bill of Rights addendum
to the U.S. Constitution. As a result of this, America is longer
America, but a police state, pure and simple.

This Patriot Bill is, in fact, a massive violation of the Constitution
it purports to uphold and improve.

Among other things, it mandates that judges give police search
warrants when they ask for them, for any reason. In fact, judges
can't deny these warrants to police, because police don't need a
stated reason to ask for them.

The Bill of Rights is the cornerstone of American freedom.

During the debates on the adoption of the Constitution in the 1790s,
its opponents repeatedly charged that the Constitution as drafted
would open the way to tyranny by the central government.

Many states would not have signed the original Constitution without
knowing that these amendments would be added, according to the
federal website which displays the Constitution. These amendments
became known as the Bill of Rights, which Americans have cherished,
protected and fought for for over 200 years.

The Patriot Act rushed through Congress and signed by President
George W. Bush is a major step toward a totalitarian state in which
individual liberty is crushed by the whim of police and corporate
demagogues masquerading as patriots.

The Patriot Act:

- Violates the First Amendment freedom of speech guarantee, right
to peaceably assemble provision, and petition the government for
redress of grievances provision; it violates the First Amendment
to the Constitution three times. More on this below.

- Violates the Fourth Amendment guarantee of probable cause in
astonishingly major and repeated ways. The Fourth Amendment to the
Constitution reads: "The right of the people to be secure in their
persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches
and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue,
but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and
particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons
of things to be seized." The Patriot Act, now passed and the law
of the land, has revoked the necessity for probable cause, and now
allows the police, at any time and for any reason, to enter and
search your house and not even tell you about it.

- Violates the Fifth Amendment by allowing for indefinite incarceration
without trial for those deemed by the Attorney General to be threats
to national security. The Fifth Amendment guarantees that no person
shall be deprived of life, liberty or property without due process
of law, and the Patriot Act does away with due process. It even
allows people to be kept in prison for life without even a trial.

- Violates the Sixth Amendment guarantee of the right to a speedy
and public trial. Now you may get no trial at all, ever.

- Violates the Eighth Amendment (cruel and unusual punishment).

- Violates the 13th Amendment (punishment without conviction).

Most of the following information is taken from the ACLU's written
objections to Congress before and after the passage of the Patriot
Act. My comments are in brackets [].

The Patriot Act does the following (I'm putting the immigration
stuff at the bottom because that least affects most of the people
who will be reading this):

- [It keeps judges out of the process and lets cops do what they
want (cops meaning FBI, CIA, etc.)] It minimizes judicial supervision
of telephone and Internet surveillance by law enforcement authorities
in anti-terrorism investigations and in routine criminal investigations
unrelated to terrorism.

[Unrelated to terrorism that means anything. How long do you think
before that includes political dissent? Oops, too late, that's
already happened.]

- It expands the ability of the government to conduct secret searches
again in anti-terrorism investigations and in routine criminal
investigations unrelated to terrorism. [Unrelated to terrorism
that means anything they want it to mean. If we don't agree with
Nazi Republican ideas, they can now arrest us.]

- It gives the Attorney General and the Secretary of State the
power to designate domestic groups as terrorist organizations and
block any non-citizen who belongs to them from entering the country.
Under this provision the payment of membership dues is a deportable
offense. [That means, among other things, that Bush and Ashcroft
can decide Greenpeace and Ralph Nader are terrorists, and under
this law, it can put them in jail.]

- It grants the FBI broad access to sensitive medical, financial,
mental health, and educational records about individuals without
having to show evidence of a crime and without a court order. [It
means they can do what they want for no good reason, except to
persecute and imprison people with humanistic, noncorporate rip-off
views.]

- It could lead to large-scale investigations of American citizens
for "intelligence" purposes and use of intelligence authorities to
by-pass probable cause requirements in criminal cases. [Bye bye
peace movement. You're all going to jail; me too.]

- It puts the CIA and other intelligence agencies back in the
business of spying on Americans by giving the Director of Central
Intelligence the authority to identify priority targets for
intelligence surveillance in the United States. [This is what
America worked so hard for all those years to eliminate.]

- It allows searches of highly personal financial records without
notice and without judicial review based on a very low standard
that does not require probable cause of a crime or even relevancy
to an ongoing terrorism investigation. [They can do any of this
stuff without any reason whatsoever. This is the kind of freedom
these fascists always wanted freedom to put everyone who disagrees
with them in jail.]

- It creates a broad new definition of "domestic terrorism" that
could sweep in people who engage in acts of political protest and
subject them to wiretapping and enhanced penalties. [This means
they can jail anyone who disagrees with them, and keep them in jail
for life without a trial.]

On immigration specifically, the new law permits the detention of
non-citizens facing deportation based merely on the Attorney
General's certification that he has "reasonable grounds to believe"
the non-citizen endangers national security. While immigration or
criminal charges must be filed within seven days, these charges
need not have anything to do with terrorism, but can be minor visa
violations of the kind that normally would not result in detention
at all. Non-citizens ordered removed on visa violations could be
indefinitely detained if they are stateless, their country of origin
refuses to accept them, or they are granted relief from deportation
because they would be tortured if they were returned to their
country of origin.

It permits the Attorney General to indefinitely incarcerate or
detain non-citizens based on mere suspicion, and to deny readmission
to the United States of non-citizens (including lawful permanent
residents) for engaging in speech protected by the First Amendment.
[Or, what used to be the First Amendment.

Now, it doesn't exist.]

Let me just take a bit more of your valuable time to make a couple
of points crystal clear, again using material from the ACLU's
objections to passage of the Patriot Act.

Wiretapping and Intelligence Surveillance

The wiretapping and intelligence provisions in the USA Patriot Act
sound two themes: they minimize the role of a judge in ensuring
that law enforcement wiretapping is conducted legally and with
proper justification, and they permit use of intelligence investigative
authority to by-pass normal criminal procedures that protect privacy.
Specifically:

1. The USA Patriot Act allows the government to use its intelligence
gathering power to circumvent the standard that must be met for
criminal wiretaps. Currently FISA surveillance, which does not
contain many of the same checks and balances that govern wiretaps
for criminal purposes, can be used only when foreign intelligence
gathering is the primary purpose. The new law allows use of FISA
surveillance authority even if the primary purpose were a criminal
investigation. Intelligence surveillance merely needs to be only
a "significant" purpose.

This provision authorizes unconstitutional physical searches and
wiretaps: though it is searching primarily for evidence of crime,
law enforcement conducts a search without probable cause of crime.

2. The USA Patriot Act extends a very low threshold of proof for
access to Internet communications that are far more revealing than
numbers dialed on a phone. Under current law, a law enforcement
agent can get a pen register or trap and trace order requiring the
telephone company to reveal the numbers dialed to and from a
particular phone. To get such an order, law enforcement must simply
certify to a judge who must grant the order that the information
to be obtained is "relevant to an ongoing criminal investigation."
This is a very low level of proof, far less than probable cause.
This provision apparently applies to law enforcement efforts to
determine what websites a person had visited, which is like giving
law enforcement the power based only on its own certification to
require the librarian to report on the books you had perused while
visiting the public library. This provision extends a low standard
of proof far less than probable cause to actual "content"

information.

3. In allowing for "nationwide service" of pen register and trap
and trace orders, the law further marginalizes the role of the
judiciary. It authorizes what would be the equivalent of a blank
warrant in the physical world: the court issues the order, and the
law enforcement agent fills in the places to be searched.

This is not consistent with the important Fourth Amendment privacy
protection of requiring that warrants specify the place to be
searched. Under this legislation, a judge is unable to meaningfully
monitor the extent to which her order was being used to access
information about Internet communications.

4. The Act also grants the FBI broad access in "intelligence"

investigations to records about a person maintained by a business.
The FBI need only certify to a court that it is conducting an
intelligence investigation and that the records it seeks may be
relevant. With this new power, the FBI can force a business to turn
over a person's educational, medical, financial, mental health and
travel records based on a very low standard of proof and without
meaningful judicial oversight.

The ACLU noted that the FBI already had broad authority to monitor
telephone and Internet communications. Most of the changes apply
not just to surveillance of terrorists, but instead to all surveillance
in the United States. [All surveillance. The WTO geeks will love
this one. Now we can be just like China.]

Law enforcement authorities -- even when they are required to obtain
court orders - have great leeway under current law to investigate
suspects in terrorist attacks. Current law already provided, for
example, that wiretaps can be obtained for the crimes involved in
terrorist attacks, including destruction of aircraft and aircraft
piracy.

The FBI also already had authority to intercept these communications
without showing probable cause of crime for "intelligence" purposes
under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act. In fact, FISA
wiretaps now exceed wiretapping for all domestic criminal
investigations. The standards for obtaining a FISA wiretap are
lower than the standards for obtaining a criminal wiretap.

Criminal Justice

The law dramatically expands the use of secret searches.

Normally, a person is notified when law enforcement conducts a
search. In some cases regarding searches for electronic information,
law enforcement authorities can get court permission to delay
notification of a search. The USA Patriot Act extends the authority
of the government to request "secret searches" to every criminal
case. This vast expansion of power goes far beyond anything necessary
to conduct terrorism investigations.

The Act also allows for the broad sharing of sensitive information
in criminal cases with intelligence agencies, including the CIA,
the NSA, the INS and the Secret Service. It permits sharing of
sensitive grand jury and wiretap information without judicial review
or any safeguards regarding the future use or dissemination of such
information.

These information sharing authorizations and mandates effectively
put the CIA back in the business of spying on Americans: Once the
CIA makes clear the kind of information it seeks, law enforcement
agencies can use tools like wiretaps and intelligence searches to
provide data to the CIA. In fact, the law specifically gives the
Director of Central Intelligence - who heads the CIA -- the power
to identify domestic intelligence requirements.

The law also creates a new crime of "domestic terrorism." The new
offense threatens to transform protesters into terrorists if they
engage in conduct that "involves acts dangerous to human life."
Members of Operation Rescue, the Environmental Liberation Front
and Greenpeace, for example, have all engaged in activities that
could subject them to prosecution as terrorists.

Then, under this law, the dominos begin to fall. Those who provide
lodging or other assistance to these "domestic terrorists" could
have their homes wiretapped and could be prosecuted.

[If you have any doubt that these are the trappings of a police
state, then you need to go back to elementary school and read about
the Constitution, which we no longer have.]

[Fox News Channel reports tonight that 90% of the American people
are really happy with what Bush has done. I think somebody wrote
this all in a book once, that when a free people gave away their
freedom, they did it happily and with much fanfare.]

[edraket]

Well it has never seemed to me like the US was the land of the free anyways.
With your weird skewered political system, religious discrimination, racial seperation, and completely commercialised society.

It's time for you to review that whole freedom of yours anyways guys.

BTW.. I am not trying to pick a fight here. Sorry if I sound harsh.
I am dutch. And I am certainly not saying that my country is perfect.
My wife is american. So I have spent much thought on this subject. And I just needed to say my thing..
good day
eddy

[J Bradford]

The thing that gets me about America is the sudden rise in nationalism because of the death of thousands of innocent lives. I mean, where was the pride before? I don't like the sudden uprise in this because it is going to just die down in a few years anyway.

And I do agree with you edraket. I would love to go oversees and never come back to the so called 'land of the free'.

[userbusi]

Perhaps it would be wise to link some other sources of information on this Act, maybe ones that would appear less sensationalist or from a different perspective, before this thread degenerates into an irrational bashfest.

[ November 15, 2001: Message edited by: userbusi ]

[faustgfx]

america ate my horse.

[Ian]

America eats it's young. I hope it grows fat and bloated and falls apart only to be swallowed up by lesser nations. It's time the holy roman empire fell.

[Gandalf-]

Ian, you're a moron.

[FireFry]

Americans have been in need of a reality check for a while now and it's disapointing that it had to take a couple thousand lives to get that point across.

Whenever there is a new law on the floor there is always the concern about abusing it, our rights being taken away, etc. etc. Not every law will be fool proof. Yeah, there is reason to be concerned but we also have to be able to change with the times.

The worlds a dangerous place, every country has it's own problems, no one's perfect. yep, look like the world has gone to hell.
let the cluster f*ck begin. :\

[balistic]

Geez, you're welcome.

Yes, the country that gave you your Internet access, computer, and indeed digital art, surely deserves any shit that someone might want to sling at it.

[Glondus]

Im happy to be living in Sweden...

Mostly because of the women though.

[Lonewalker]

Poxin - The commondreams site is pretty informative. I just read a few of the articles and have really enjoyed them.

Got anymore sites like this? Good read...

These days it feels like America is run by the Illuminati It seems these bills just sweep right through Congress and no one notices. Are we all just mindless drones or just terribly misinformed by CNN.

Next up for America? Identity cards! I am just waiting for that one to pass

Jezebel – Very well said. At least we can say Spooge is from the states! Top that world

[Gandalf-]

I'm not even American, but since these attacks, I feel like I've sort of adopted America as a "second home". Maybe it's because we are facing something so evil that people just feel they need to pool all of their love and positivity together in order to overcome.

I just have a lot of compassion for what has happened to the citizens of America, and because of that, I'll defend it.

Obviously I disagree with a lot of things congress does, and all the little trivialities that go along with that, but all in all the fate of the free world virtually sits in the lap of Lady Liberty. I for one would much prefer to support that effort than hinder it.

[roundeye]

the loss of rights and liberties is not trivial, corn pops. id choose fredom over a false sense of security, personally.

how do you defend fredom? by taking it away?

[FireFry]

Well said Jezebel

[Impaler]

Hey, foo'. The American Consitution has an elastic clause that generally gives Congress the right to perform whatever drastic move they want, in a time of war, provided that American standards revert once peace prevails.

So, yeah. Congress can grant the rampant racial profiling, phone tapping, and immigrant detention to whichever agency it wishes, because we are in a state of war right now.

Civil liberties are always the first victim in the fight for freedom and autonomy and all of that jazz.

[Poxin]

First off, Jezebel I fully agree with you! It's a mistake to believe that one size fits all. To generalize everyone in the states as dumb and ingnorent is rather dumb and ignorent it's self.

I urge people to keep an open mind about all this.

balistic: Keep in mind that it wasnt a country that brought us the internet, computers, or digital art but the people of the world collectivly.

Remember that it's our job as loving people to question the actions of our leaders. They are human as well and are not invincable to greed, curruption, or mistakes. Yet for some reason many assume they are.

Impaler: When the entire free world was threatend by the massive armys of nazi germany, and japan you still had your freedoms.

Two commercial airliners collid into a corperate money center and suddenly were at war? A war that has no solid objective or goal other then to stop terrorism? Some one wanna explain to me what classifies as terrorism? I'm sure we all have our own opinions on to what it is. So how did one government and it's corperations drag the rest of the world into this campain of pointless violence and opression?

"Civil liberties are always the first victim in the fight for freedom and autonomy and all of that jazz."

This hasent happend before, so why now?

Like roundeye stated: "how do you defend freedom? by taking it away?"

Your freedoms are gone, with no garentee that they will return. Your only hope is built on the idea that the war on terrorism will end and that when it does you will get your freedoms back. If your aware of how things are at the moment thats a big IF

I suggest you read more about this and dicover the situation your actually in.

This page contains many articals on current events around this topic.
http://www.projectcensored.org/

A U.N. study on globalization and who benefits because of it.
http://www.rferl.org/nca/features/1999/07/F.RU.990713143430.html

An artical pointing out that the US government new that the sept 11th attacks were going to happen and alowed them to in order to prevent an economic collaps.
http://www.guerrillanews.com/counter_intel/boom_bust_echo/ruppert_trans.html

[dead]

Doesn't this bill automatically expire in two years?

[Poxin]

It does. The patriot act it's self was easily passed. Whats to stop another similar act from being passed as soon as 2 years are up? Do you think the government won't get used to the freedom it's going to have untill then? Even still, alot can happen in 2 years.

[ November 15, 2001: Message edited by: Poxin ]

[balistic]

"balistic: Keep in mind that it wasnt a country that brought us the internet, computers, or digital art but the people of the world collectivly."

Rand blueprinted the Internet (it was originally a defense project), American companies designed the first personal computers, and Evans and Sutherland invented computer graphics as we know them.

The "world" didn't create them, American capitolism and military spending did.

I am a globalist. I believe in open borders and free trade. But seriously, to sit on one's ass and wish suffering on the country that gave you a global voice in the first place . . . that's just bad manners.

[FireFry]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Poxin:
It does. The patriot act it's self was easily passed. Whats to stop another similar act from being passed as soon as 2 years are up? Do you think the government won't get used to the freedom it's going to have untill then?

---

It all depends if we are still in a state of war or not...

[edible snowman]

the united states weren't exactly free during world war II. plus the nature of the 'enemy' was different, they weren't exactly among us so this whole thing wouldnt have been warranted. not that i condone this bill, but its like there's nothing behind it.

[Impaler]

Poxin: World War 2, for example.

Thousands of Japanese families on the Pacific coast were forced to leave their homes and lives behind as they were transplanted into internment camps. They were accused of being spies for Japan, and were therefore a "threat" that had to be "taken care of". None of these familes were ever accused of being spies or Japan affiliates, outside of their heritage. When they returned home, they were shunned from their communities and former jobs.

Cold War:

Hundreds of celebrities and prominent authors were put before a senate committee headed by Eugene McCarthy. They were accused of being Communists and therefore pro-war. Many lost their jobs, none were ever convicted. Just plain paranoia, and their civil liberties are lost.

Operation Enduring Freedom Euphemism Sikh Hunt:

Dozens of foreigners and Arab Americans are detained simply because they don't speak English all that well, or because they 'look' like a terrorist.

Japanese Americans aren't in internment camps, celebrities aren't Pinkos, and Arabs aren't terrorists.

[maceface]

yeah dont forget that this terrorism crap can happen anywhere...but what really gets me made is that we (the USA) is feeding all the afghan refugees while they protest us and get mad at us retaliating to what some of their ppl did...i know its not the whole nations fault only a select few...but alot of ppl supported what he did. If you dont like us give us back all our food and support!

[Poxin]

Balistic: Well your right. People in the states invented these things. That was then and the world made them what they are today. But I suppose that dosent count. I don't wish suffering on anyone or anything. Never said I did and wasnt my intent to portray that I did.

Firefly: Correct. But I don't see how we're at war now.

Impaler: Unlike those wars we are not at war with a country or orginization. Unstead we are at war with anyone that is deemed a terrorist.

Who does the government consider a terrorist? Givin the current state of your freedoms, anyone they feel like. With out question or reason they can call any one they want a terrorist and lock them up for good with out trial.

maceface: Hey, they wouldnt be refugees if the US hadent started bombing their homes. You think you can just bomb the citazins of a country and then give them small amounts of food and expect them to be happy with you?

Would that work here?

BOOOOOOM! oops! sorry for killing your family! have some food!

And we wonder why the new york thing happend.

[maceface]

true true...but would we be bombing them if they didnt pull this shit?
also not to mention there were refugees long before we arrived...they were trying to flee the taliban by going into pakistan...
(btw if i seem rude sorry...trying not to be)

[ November 15, 2001: Message edited by: maceface ]

[sacrelicious]

While I wouldn't call myself a conspiracy buff, I am well aware of many of the predominant theories, including those regarding the Illuminati, Trilateral Commission, New World Order, etc. (And I just played Deus Ex again! )

Now this may sound like paranoia, but if a "shadow government" was looking to suspend the Constitution and extend their grasp, even seize control, wouldn't events like the attacks on September 11th provide the perfect opportunity? If these secret societies existed, could they have even planned a more effective way of superceding our current, somewhat democratic system of government without drawing attention to themselves? And if the answer to that question is "no," as I feel it is (or at least "probably not"), then don't we have to question who the true perpatrators of these crimes really are/were? Ask yourself, who has benefitted from these attacks? Has Afghanistan? No, their rubble is currently being pounded into dust. Has Osama bin Laden? No, he's a wanted fugitive who must be constantly on guard and on the move because trained killers are out for his blood. Has anyone in Washington benefitted in any way? Well, just look at the bills that are flying through Congress these days and I think you'll have the answer to that question.

Personally, I don't doubt for a second that these secret organizations exist and are moving behind the scenes. Their past actions and current werewithal may be greatly exaggerated or mythologized, but I'm certain that they are out there. I just hope I don't disappear after posting this... (The scary thing is that I'm only half-kidding...)

[Poxin]

Well I don't think theres much point in arguing more about this. Clashign opinions and stateing whos better achieves nothing. Suppose we will all discover what happens in the comming months and years.

So far i think 1,100 or so people have been prosacuted and thrown in jail with out trial since recent passing of the patriot act.
I have a feeling that those numbers will grow. Watch what you say, your government might not like it.

As jezebel stated, theres to much negativity here.

Time to create somthing posative.

I leave you with some tasty Bob Marley lyrics.

"When you think its peace and safety
A sudden destruction
Collective security for surety
Yeah!
Don't forget your history
Know your destiny
In the abundance of water
The fool is thirsty
Rat race, rat race, rat race

Oh it's a disgrace to see the
Human-race in a rat race, rat race
You got the horse race
You got the dog race
You got the human-race
But this is a rat race, rat race"

[sacrelicious]

P.S. I don't think Poxin or anybody else was trying to insult the American people or our ways of life (except Ian, but nobody cares what he thinks). For example Jez, nobody ever said that Americans were a buncha retards. They may have criticized our government as corrupt and our gneral culture as overly commercialized, but isn't that true?

Edit: Don't get me wrong, it does kinda suck to be attacked all the time, and I'm all for standing up for ourselves and our nation, but sometimes we sound silly doing it. It's like Don King defending Satan on South Park: "I'm tired of everybody talking smack about my fighter! He's mean, he's dirty, he's the cause of all pain and suffering in the world!"

[ November 15, 2001: Message edited by: sacrelicious ]

[worthless_meat_sack]

If you give me your attention, I will tell you what I
am:
I'm a genuine philanthropist -- all other kinds are
sham.
Each little fault of temper and each social defect
In my erring fellow-creatures, I endeavour to correct.
To all their little weaknesses I open people's eyes;
And little plans to snub the self-sufficient I devise;
I love my fellow creatures -- I do all the good I can--
Yet ev'rybody says I'm such a disagreeable man!
And I can't think why!

To compliments inflated I've a withering reply;
And vanity I always do my best to mortify;
A charitable action I can skillfully dissect;
And interested motives I'm delighted to detect;
I know ev'rybody's income and what ev'rybody earns;
And I carefully compare it with the income-tax returns;
But to benefit humanity however much I plan,
Yet ev'rybody says I'm such a disagreeable man!
And I can't think why!

I'm sure I'm no ascetic; I'm as pleasant as can be;
You'll always find me ready with a crushing repartee,
I've an irritating chuckle, I've a celebrated sneer,
I've an entertaining snigger, I've a fascinating leer.
To ev'rybody's prejudice I know a thing or two;
I can tell a woman's age in half a minute -- and I do.
But although I try to make myself as pleasant as I can,
Yet ev'rybody says I'm such a disagreeable man!

[FatPenguin]

I've seen a lot of people who apparently can't understand why America is hated by the rest of the world, when they as nation spend so much of their time helping everyone. Often suggesting that the only possible answer is that the rest of the world must be jelous of their success.

That explanation doesn't make sense for a reason. It is completely untrue.

I am certain that Americans as people are no worse in general than people from anywhere else in the world. America in many respects is a wonderful country. But many people do have perfectly legitimate reasons for hating it.

American foregin policy over the last 50 years has really not been something that anyone should be proud of.


Here's a trivia question: how many countries has the US bombed since the end of WW2?