[ScoobyDoo]

What ever happend to FredFlickStone(ron lemen), and the other presto studio's guys. I saw a post by francis the other day, but thats been it. And SpoogeDemon is scarce too(though he was always that way).

It seems so transient here.
We lost fred, got steven stahlberg(spell?).
Lost frost, got red leader
?

[dr . bang]

shhhhhhh, don't talk about Spooge, he moved to Africa, but is uncle meatsack is still around

Francist post here often. He's still around! He even hang out at ramdom musing!!!

Frost, STILL GOING STRONG, VERY STRONG.

Fred is disappeared, he's probably got married, remeber the girl he said he met few months ago?

Wacomonkey doesnt post here often but i remmeber he's still around, very rarely though.

[Akolyte]

Francis and synj are here. Frost is still here Red Leader and Steven Stahlberg kick serious ass. That is all.

[Brain]

And Shizo. Where is Shizo?!? *cries to the heavens*

[Frost]

Hey Scooby, long time no see. =]
Yes, I'm still around, but I'm not putting out as much as I used to. I try to give positive feedback and encouragements more than tips as I'm not the most suited to do so.

[Frosted Flame]

Ack! More Frost self-bashing!

You are so talented man, it's really a shame to see you have such little confidence in yourself. You are quite truly one of my favorite digital artists. Your flesh-tones are simply amazing, I don't know a digital artist that can paint the subtleties in human skin like you can. So stop the self-bashing or I'll be forced to compliment you even more!*$*%(*$

[gLitterbug]

Frost you�re a hopeless idiot!

[aquamire]

I dont want to fuel an argument over your self worth, Frost. I wont say your my personal idol, a god of art, a 'spooge', or anything of the like. Cuz your not. Your a realist, when it comes to knowing yourself and your limits. But as far as I can tell, your limits are self-imposed.

Yeah, it's true, with age you catch on to things more slowly. So fucking what? Thats not an excuse to avoid pushing yourself. My 45 year old mother dropped out of highschool. 5 Years ago she went and got a GED, and just now finished College. She came from a time when they changed the math system.. her math skills were HORRENDOUS. Yet she pushed herself. Got nearly straight A's, but she did not do it without a huge amount of effort. She had to live and breath school. The few hours of sleep she got every night (if she slept) were filled with dreams of studying! Im not joking either. I'm rather glad its all over, as she was on the rim of insanity.

So I guess, unless you truly believe in yourself and push yourself, your not going to get to where you want to be. Spend less time saying you suck, and break out the anatomy book. If your happy with your current skills, thats fine. Do whatever ya like. Your only 29? For cryin outloud, you act like my 67 year old stubborn Grandma.

Besides the above, I do enjoy your art. Your technical skill does rise above mine quite a bit, and I know I as well as many others aspire to you. I see so much potential, but if dont push yourself and just accept your an old fart and cant learn anything, that potential is just wasted.

[Frost]

Glitterbug: Excuse me? I take offense to such comments... especially in the absence of a smily or any indication that you were trying to be humourous. You can think that, but, please elaborate instead of just calling names.

Aquamire: A lot of truth in what you wrote. I don't paint as much as I should be if I wanted to become a pro and do ONLY this for the rest of my life. I think it's more of a "serious" hobby that I enjoy than a life devotion. So I DO push myself, but not as hard as I would if I were entirely devoted to art - I hope you understand that. Thanks for the interesting read.

[ June 22, 2001: Message edited by: Frost ]

[aquamire]

Frost, I feel that I owe you an apology. I feel kinda like I really ripped on you there.. and perhaps that was sort of my intent at the time. I wrote that hoping perhaps it might point a few things out to you that perhaps someone hasnt said, or that you haven't let yourself think about. It probably wasn't my place, and I just want to say I'm sorry if my words at all bothered you.

I always look forward to the paintings you post, and I hope to continually see you develop, at whatever rate you choose for yourself. Just never let yourself think your art is worthless or conveys little point, because it always does, and always will, as long as you paint it, it will have some of you in it.

At least your not a premadonna about your art. We can all say that much.

[MadSamoan]

Um back to the original topic. Ron is around. He's just been busy lately what with work, traveling, teaching and attending to personal things. I attend Watts Atelier on weekends where he teaches, so if I see him tomorrow, I'll let him know he's missed.

[dr . bang]

Frost, every one is different, if you are not good at art compare to them, you could be better at them at some other field. To me and many other people, you're in the list of Mikael Noguchi, Joachim Barrum, "Red Leader", Ron Lemen, Craig Mullins, Steven Stahlberg, Vebjorn Strommen, "Capt.FlushGarden", Peter Baustaedter, Feng Zhu, Francis Tsai, Isric, Sumaleth, and the list goes on. So i think you're not that suck for a 29 years old man

[ June 22, 2001: Message edited by: dr . bang ]

[Frosted Flame]

Frost, I'm sorry, but just like you, I am entitled to my own opinion. You can't convince me of something that I feel is absolutely false. I suppose that it's fine that you feel the way you do about your level of talent (allbeit, sad) but I doesn't mean I have to agree with you. I feel that you are incredibly talented, and I honestly love your work. I COULD go on and on about what makes your work technically superior to the majority of stuff posted on Sijun, but it seems rather pointless as I know that you will rebut.

My opinion remains the same, you haven't changed it in the least. I just truly find it disheartening to see someone with as much skill as you be SO incredibly hard on yourself. Sigh.

[Frosted Flame]

Oh also..I don't think glitterbug meant to offend you Frost. I agree with you in that his comment comes off as completely disrespectful, but I just think he forgot to puncuate with the proper smileys/sarcastic vehicles. I've talked to him on ICQ a few times, and he simply isn't this cruel

[Frost]

Frosted: (sigh) Let's not turn this into a "Frost, you're so good..." and all that thread. I don't mean to embarass you by contradicting you, but I think it's perhaps time I cleared this topic with the people who think like this in my regard.

As much as I like to be respected, encouraged, adored, etc., I still think I am nothing but a 29 year old man who's doing not extremely fascinating work. Just look around this place, and you will spot many many people who are way better than I am in many aspects; people like Mikael Noguchi, Joachim Barrum, "Red Leader", Ron Lemen, Craig Mullins, Steven Stahlberg, Vebjorn Strommen, "Capt.FlushGarden", Peter Baustaedter, Feng Zhu, Francis Tsai, Isric, Sumaleth, and the list goes on.

My anatomy is shaky. My skin tones are too. My character, vehicle, and architectural designs and developments are poor. My line work is generally bad. My shading is generally ok, but still needs a LOT of work.

I have a decent technical understanding of things such as lighting, reflections, shadow casting, perspective, etc., but that doesn't make a good artist. In fact, I don't consider myself an "artist", I don't do things with "meaning" like Socar Myles might do for instance, nor can I do mouthwateringly beautiful and peaceful as Craig Mullins can. But I do take credit for those technical things I know, and that I can try to share.

I have no art education, all I know as much in art as in programming/technical is mostly self-taught from analysing and thinking things through, and that I am proud of.

So no, I don't think I'm great, but I know I can get stuff done with generally good results. It's nowhere near as good as I'd like it to be.

Then there's people who think that I'm just looking for attention because of my constant whining about my own lousyness. I happen to think I do rather suck compared to the people mentionned a few paragraphs above, because I know they are better than me at those things that I would like to be good at. If I compared my drawing/photoshop skills with the average 29 year old man off the street, then yes, I'd kick their ass my eyes closed. But comparing apples to apples and analysing other people's work here on the forum, you closely catch on to your flaws and lackings.

There's also people that think that because I am better than they are, and that I say "I suck", think that they must REALLY suck and that living is hopeless. If that's the message I get across, then I am sorry, as it's not the message I'm trying to give. The message I'm trying push out is that I am aware of my flaws and I know that I am not as good as some of my peers here are, and that the road to good art is long and rough. I am simply not content with my skills is all. Keep in mind that I am a little older than most people here as well, and that for every month/year you spend here learning from other artists, you're giving yourself a great advantage over artists that aren't. As you get older, the slower you are to catch on to things, which means that if you're younger you have the opportunity to work your way up faster and to catch up to some major talent.

So, when I say "I suck", it's merely a communication of my own discontent towards my work, and nothing more.

There you have it. I hope this doesn't get replied to by hundreds of people saying "cheer up" or such, then I'd feel like I have really asked for attention and all that crap. I appreciate and thank very very very much those people who like my work and encourage me, it really warms my heart to get such positive feedback. =)

On another note, anyone know why my rating went from a 4.56 average score in 28 votes to 3.92 in 32 votes? =) I guess I must have done SOMETHING wrong at some point... =) (I think I may have offended some Batman fans...=)

cheers,
frost.

[Loki]

Frost: shut up - We love you! And there's no way you gonna convince us that you're a mediocre artist.

--
on a sidenote: how many people furiously fend off compliments like our froster? That makes him special too, haha. Give it up buddy, there's NO escape from our sympathy towards you. We'll just drown you in affection - and when you come up for air, there'll be synji waiting to knock you out with a big wet kiss!

amen

[gLitterbug]

Frost I�m very sorry and the last thing I wanted is to offend you. Should have put a smiley up there, but I didn�t think that you would take that serious in any way, I�m not used to communities where people insult each other so I really didn�t think about that could be taken that way. Very sorry for that.

Let me explain what was my point. First I wanted to write how you inspire me and how I like your work and that I think you are one of the big players around here. But then I thought that wouldn�t lead anywhere, because you are stuck in such an frustration, that praise wouldn�t be right in place. I think I know how you feel, as I feel that way very often and that include times when I look at pictures you�ve drawn and I think that I suck. By reading your post that emotion came up in me again and all I could write were these words. But if I come over that feeling of major sucking I say to myself what idiot I�ve been, to just dive deeper into the shit of frustration by not saying to myself "Hey I�ve got time to practice and I will reach my goal! Maybe I will never be as good as others but I will do my best and have fun by doing it!"
I have not one percent of people on that board that say how they like my work that you have. But I still get myself up. If I�m stuck in thinking I suck I DO suck, then I�m not able to draw anything useful.

I hope you understand how I meant it and I can�t say HOW sorry I am that you felt offended, as the last thing I wanted was to offend the great(no sarcasm) Frost!

Btw. one thing that offends and frustrates ME is that nearly all people that write my name in their replies write Glitterbug instead of gLitterbug. There�s a meaning behind my nick which I wrote down in my first post. OK not everybody can read all posts and surely won�t read that of a "sucking newbie" but at least people could try to spell others names right. That is something that I think shows the least respect we should have of each other on that board. I wouldn�t like to be called Jimmy in reallife when my name is Frank, would you?

Some info on me: I�m getting 20 in 5 days, have no background or education in art as I visited a technical college for control engineering, broke that up a year ago and most people think my future isn�t very bright, but I AM sure my future will be bright, because I will shape it that way

I hope you get out of your frustration, as I really like your art and think you�re a very great person, judging from your posts. You�re free to think I�m a complete ass but that would hit me hard, but would be my mistake. Sorry again for those words.

edit: spelling and forgot to thank Frosted Flame for defending me. Thank you very much!

[ June 23, 2001: Message edited by: gLitterbug ]

[Frosted Flame]

See!

No problem glitterbug, I knew you weren't out to hurt anyone. You're a harmless glittering little bug, they can't hurt anyone!

[Frost]

gLitterbug: I understand how you feel now, and I am the one that is sorry if my words have hurt you. I will put more effort into less negative towards my work.

As for the correct letter cases in you alias, I am sorry as I meant no disrespect by it, in fact, "glitter" seemed a LOT nicer than "litter" so I guess I went with that. =) I usually spend time to get the exact spelling of someone's name right, but I really got upset when you just called me a hopeless idiot with a sad/frowny face a message header, so I thought it wouldn't make much of a difference.

I have no hard feelings now that you explained yourself, so don't worry about it. =]

Frosted Flame: Thanks as well for illustrating your view on the whole subject. But, as stupid as it seems, I sometimes take positive feedback as being untruthful, especially from the great guys when they tell me things like my lighting is excellent (when *I* think it's not and that they can do better themselves). Anyway, it's all greatly appreciated, honestly, but I sometimes wonder how deep those remarks really are. Sorry.

Everyone/Ron: Sorry for messing this thread up, ... random musings...

[gLitterbug]

Frost, that really makes the sun shine out of my ass!

You�re not only a great artist but also a great person. I�m really glad we have you on this board!

[Blitz]

What it sounds to me is your down because these great artists you mentioned up there are for the most part younger than you. That may be what gets you down is how much better you beleve thes younger artists to be.

Im not verry confident about my skills to ive been told. I mean, here I am in highschool, wanting to play football for my life, I was good, just didnt have the grades really. But I also had a thing for art. I didnt realy take it to seriously but. But then I found myslef going to art school. What a different rout my life was takeing. So it seems like you ask most people on this forum.."How long you been drawing steddely" and they will say...Oh since I was like 5. Man, I was playing backyard football since I was 5...but not drawing. So that I think is what effects me as an artist.

But this forum is a great aria for suport. Im starting to improove real fast. I have meet alot of AWSOME..AWSOME artist and some PRO Artsts that I talk to on ICQ and they help me and want me to send them drawing and such. This is a great atmosphear.

So Frost, although you may not think your that good....at least your doing it. No matter what you think.

And Id watch out for that big Smooch by sinj Loki was talking about. hehe

Well its amazing how different this thread turned out.

[S4Sb]

Frost, where do you work right now?

[egerie]

Also, what about Jason Manley ?

(edit : butchered link.)

[ October 10, 2001: Message edited by: egerie ]

[Vgta]

Any one seen Loki lately?

BTW, Frost man, you kick ass.
Hey do you like Poutine? if ya do, next time I'm back home I'll take you to the best place to get 'em at, a little shop on the West Island near Pte. Claire. Where I used to live.
Laterz

Forgot to add the smiley


[ July 13, 2001: Message edited by: Vgta ]

[Farwalker]

MadSamoan:
Please tell Fred he IS missed. If he gets any spare time... would love to have him post some of his recent work!

[Jason Manley]

jason manley lives!




j

[Muzman]

(when in Rome...)

Frost you R0xorz d00d. If you dare form a depreciative opinion of yourself I will personally whup yo punk ass.

[cybertoker2001]

Don't feel like crap Frost, I post all kinds of work here and I've got a couple guys that seem to do nothing more than follow me around from post to post burning my ass. =/
My rating was 4 stars every since I first came here and now that sijun has come back it got knocked down to just above 3 stars. Coincidence that the haters show up and my rating goes down? I don't think so.
I don't feel that I'm the greatest artist in the forums by a long shot, far from it. BUT, my work is up to par with some of the better folks around here. I mean, I'm no Craig Mullins, but I'm no hack either.
Basicly what I'm trying to say here is......At least you're the only one coming down on yourself. Look around at how many people support you and your art here.
You're lucky man.
I haven't seen your art yet, but from the sounds of it, you're fairly skilled to say the very least.
I wish I was in your shoes, I have to fight with some folks just to prove myself to be a descent artist around here. You simply say "I suck" and everyone's there to pat you on the back.

I hope you don't somehow interpret this to be a negative responce.

It's just a look through the eyes of a guy on the other side of the spectrum.

Take it easy brotha,
CT2001

[roundeye]

why do people feel the need to bring up months old threads? this is from june!

[Akolyte]

heh