[Ben Barker]

This is really starting to bug me. A lot. Bug isn't the right word.
For a long time I've wanted to make games. It's always been my goal ever since I was like, 12. A while ago I got an email from my dream company asking me to submit a demo reel. This is the company that I always told myself I would drop everything for and go for it.
But now I have second thoughts. What the hell is up with that?

Everywhere I look, the game market is falling apart. There's so much animosity. Artists versus coders. MAX artists versus Maya artists versus Lightwave artists. Entire teams of people become obsolete when their software does. People who I consider much better than myself getting laid off, forced to join the ranks of thousands of unemployed Californians with technical skills. Companies being forced to hack out 3-month-dev-time, shitty, repetative, "I'll kill someone if I have to make another texture" console games because the PC games market just doesn't pay off. Really, really talented people finding themselves living off unemployment checks for no fault of their own. Project leads against their team. Producers fighting dev companies.

This isn't the industry I wanted to be a part of. This is a meat grinder. This is an industry where rich CEOs force their employees to work 60+ hour weeks for two years and shit pay, only to lay them off when the game gets cancelled, and they are back to square one. They can't find a job because other artists in the entertainment industry look down on the game industry so much. And why?
Big game companies ride their new employees enthusiasm for the craft until it's burned off and the employee is burned out, then they discard them and grab another new employee from the clamboring horde to start again.

There's so much venom now. It seems like everyone is just a cynical, egotistical asshole. Like the community has completely changed and fallen apart. When did that happen? When did the altruism die? It's always ultimately been about making a buck, but now it seems so fucked up. There's no trust anymore. It's us against them.

I'm afraid now that either I'll get a shitty education, and become another shitty graphic designer making box labels in Cincinnati Ohio. Or, I'll chuck my degree, become a game artist soon, get layed off in 6 months, and completely shit out of luck. No degree, no money, no paddle for the creek I'm in.

It makes me want to chuck it all. Just sell my laptop, my tablet, everything computer related. Become a computer illiterate again. Buy more paints, learn how to use them better, and become a better artist. Ditch my degree in Design, and get a degree in Illustration. Become a freelance artist somewhere. The more I think about it the more I get depressed. Anyone know what I mean? I don't know what the right decision is.

[Poprocksz]

That's the meaning of life......figure it out

be honest.......

[dr . bang]

We're all start from the bottom to the top, i believe working in a game give you tremendious learning experience, it also spices up your resume alot!

" Everywhere I look, the game market is falling apart. "

It's not just the game market, almost everything computer related stuff are falling apart so don't worry and go for what you love.

[J Bradford]

There happens to be a good and bad side to everything. The way your talking about the game industry, it's as if you have been a veteran for 20 years in a shit job.

Seriously, it isn't that bad. Your looking completely at the bad side of it, the problems, the worrying, the money, the amount of work it takes.

Take a step back, and a deap breath. Take the job offer, gain some experience. You have no way to knowing if you will be laid off, and it's only 6 months (according to you) of experience you can gain.

So many people think their just going to start off right away in this amazing job, making lots of money, playing tennis with their boss - everyone is going to smile, have happy lunch breaks, and go home to thier wife and kids.

[Ben Barker]

It might have to do with the negativity of the internet. Like you said, I don't work in the game industry. The internet is pretty much the only way I communicate with people who are in the game industry.
The internet has a tendancy to let all of the crap float to the top.

[Flinthawk]

No, the internet seems to be the place where all those that don't have happy lives to go home to spend their time in (yeah, look at me, I'm one to talk, heh). Anyway, yes, there are a lot of bitter people in the industry. Many times though, they brought it on themselves. Most of the bitter ones I know spent their entire careers in one stupid place...putting all their eggs in one basket, as it were.

Half of this industry, and other big industries, seems to be contacts. Yeah, I know, it sucks, but that's the way it is at times. Make the contacts and you should never be out of a job for long. I got laid off when my project got canned back in the spring. Thanks to contacts I had I was back making [more] money in about a month's time...and this being smack-dab in the middle of the recent hiring slump. It was funny because in the meeting where they laid myself and a bunch of others off, while they were giving the whole 'we never wanted to do this' speech I was already going through all my contacts in my head.

One thing that helps is that I didn't set my goals too high either. I'm not working my dream job, the projects I'm on aren't as interesting as the high profile title I was on before. But this job is paying me well and that affords me the opportunity to get ready for bigger things should I want them.

I wouldn't give up on the industry, I mean, I know it does suck right now. Frankly I'm pissed and bitter to an extent already...and I've only been in for a year and a half! I'm sick of hearing producers come in and talk about last minute plans to put billboards of companies in our games just to make a quick advertising buck, publishers that don't know a game if it hit them in the go-nads, and mismanagement of time, money and resources on a regular basis, publsihers that are completely clueless when it comes to knowing what it takes to make a game, or better yet, publishers that try and cut every freakin' corner to squish some shoddy game out the door to please their quarterly report. But tell you what, I'm not one to stand and take it so I'm doing everything I can to change the situation for the better.

Whoa, where did that all come from, heh. Anyways, I wouldn't get down on things. Yes, there's a slump but that's normal, it happens every so often. The industry has to have a blood letting to get rid of no-talents that have invaded the industry through nepotism (which is funny because in some ways you could say I'm an offender). The console wars are making execs wonder which system to develop for and what the public wants. As soon as Xbox and Gamecube get released you'll start seeing the unemployment rate go down a bit since teams will start needing talent to finish their games.

So don't give it up just yet. The game industry is still growing, bigger than movies no less. The key is to never sit on your haunches and think that everything will come to you. Hope you work things out to satisfaction.

-Flinthawk

[Pat]

Ben, if you think things have changed you're wrong. The video game industry has ALWAYS been about making a buck, it's always been cynical and there's always been animosity.

If you don't believe me, look at the earliest days of the gaming industry. Companies like Atari and Mattel ran sweatshops for their programmers, routinely paying programmers slave wages while their products made millions. Many of them went uncredited. Code was routinely stolen. Programmers constantly had to fight an uncaring management to include features and innovative gameplay. Companies like Imagic were founded by programmers who were tired of being ripped off and treated poorly in the "meat-grinder".

If you're interested in knowing more, I suggest stopping by the Classic Gaming Expo to learn how little things have changed. Or, better yet, visit Scott West Productions and pick up his documentary series on the early days of Atari. It's utterly facinating and scary at the same time. Different time and different names, same old story. Once you watch it you'll come to the inescapable conclusion that there were no halcyon days of game development.

I feel bad that my post leaves you with no solid answers or advice. I take solice in the fact that things aren't that much different and that as you reevaluate your situation you'll have a clearer, albeit less naive, view of what's going on out there. That's the first step to getting where you need to be.

BTW, I'm serious about you checking out those videos. As depressing as they might be to you initially, there's a sort of redemption in them. The round-table talk with the programmers should really strike home with anyone feeling your frustration. As with any creative endeavor, if your passion is in your work, it becomes it's own reward. Long after their battles were over, whether they won them or not, all the successful game designers in the video still exhibited an enthusiasm and love for what they did. I got the profound feeling that, in the long run, the minutia of the workplace politics never transcended the joy of creation for these people. I'm not in the game industry myself, but I recognize true artists when I see them, and I revel at any triumph of creativity in the face of adversity. Who knows, they might just inspire you too.

-Pat

[S4Sb]

I hear you Ben. I feel exactly like you. And I really don't know what to do. Most of the professionels I meet are afraid of loosing there job or already lost it. I haven't met too many tho. Just those you probably met as well in paintchat and here.

But my intention to reply to this post wasn't to complain about this. I wanted to ask for the reasons. I don't think at all that it's always been like that. As for how I see it the biggest problem at the moment in the gaming industry is that nobody buys their products anymore. I mean, I'm still at school. And I see the youngest pupils dealing with warez. Nowadays everybody and I mean everybody has access to a CD Burner and high speed internet connection. Only in the circle of people I know there are maybe 5 percent of bought products. The rest is warez. If not even less. And I think that it's even worse in big cities. Is there any way of a solution to this problem?

Flinthawk: Well, I'm not in that game industry. But I have access to lots of information about the industry thru the internet or magazines. And I don't agree with your point about those "no-talents" of whom the industry has to get rid of. As I see it as a "user" of those products, there are more awesome games than ever before. Almost all the games which will be released soon, have a great potential through a creativ game concept, great graphics and great story. It's been a lot worse when everybody tried to make another Command&Conquer or Quake clone.

[edit] grammar

[ July 16, 2001: Message edited by: S4Sb ]

[Flinthawk]

Well, S4Sb, as one who is in the industry and has been around juuuust enough to begin formulating an opinion, I can say that there are people working in the industry that need to go or at least, shouldn't be getting paid what they're making right now. It's not everwhere, mind you, but it is around and I have seen it with my own eyes in multiple companies...

Get this, an artist the other day was asked to do a task to which he replied, "That sounds like drawing"...and no, he wasn't being sarcastic. Ex-dot-com webpage creators and people who aren't even in the game industry for the love of games should leave...plain and simple. Too many people are around that are in games and don't care about them...taking jobs from people that would work their ass off to get into the game industry. I don't have a large problem with people that aren't the most talented people in the world but if they can at least show the dedication and desire to get a job done to the best of their ability then I'm all for it.

Right now though, I see too many people that come in, put in maybe 2 hours of work (not even good work at that) and then leave when 5:00 comes around. No, the games industry doesn't have to be the 25 hour a day marathon it turns into on a regular basis but is it too much to ask that someone put in 5.. 6.. maybe 7 hours of quality work (read as: work that doesn't have to be redone...constantly), I mean, these people are getting paid for 8 hours of work...least they can do is meet halfway.

I know that situations like the ones I describe aren't out there at all companies but that doesn't mean they don't exist. I'm sure there are plenty of developers on this board, like perhaps Micke and Joachim among others, that would tell you different based on their experience.

Yes, I agree with you about the good games that are coming. Problem is, for every good game there seems to be five more crap games...usually games that could have been better had A: the developers gotten down to work and did their best to deliver and/or B: the publisher stopped interrupting the project with things peripheral to the game and didn't try and shove stuff out the door before it was finished. Yes, it can be the fault of either and both sides. Myself and others I know visit the local EB at lunch and every time we do we look at the walls of games and see maybe a handful of games that we'd actually buy...the rest is, well, not crap because there are plenty of niche titles or titles marketed to other demographics, but there are more titles we wouldn't buy simply because they aren't any good be it bad design, bad art, bad programming or a combination of the three (of course, these are opinions, many would disagree).

I don't mean to be argumentative...hopefully I don't come off that way. I just wanted to explain what it was I was getting at in my earlier response and tell my side of things from what I've assessed so far. You see, when I say 'no-talent' I don't stop at the innate artistic (or programming, as it may be) talent...I lump work ethics, passion/desire and the ability to deliver as promised into that. What good is talent if there isn't a desire to put it to use or the integrity to get it done as promised? This is why desire...heart...can make up for lack of talent(or better said, skill) or work habits. I'd rather have someone that gives me pretty good work on a regular basis than an amazing artist that gives me one good piece every blue-moon. But you see, the problem is that too many people lack in all areas of my personal definition of talent...myself included in some respects. Hope that makes sense.

I'll stop there because I think I've explained my position in far greater detail than most would care to read Besides, I have to put my two hours of work in for the day :P

-Flinthawk

P.S. Don't believe everything you read on the 'net or in magazines...at least take it with a grain of salt...that goes for my own words as well. There are plenty of people in the industry that are not all they pretend to be.

[S4Sb]

Wow, thanks Flint for the answer. As I said I'm not in the industry. Thanks for the sneak peak in the high business. It actually gave me a bit of hope back.
Thanks for your time.
Wish you the best.

[travis travis]

I wanted to be a videogame designer since I was a kid, to the point of even doing the work and building a paper portfolio of games with original stories, characters, and play mechanics. I mean I took it SERIOUSLY. There's no question I'd do exceptionally well in the industry because of my rare passion and devotion. But my problem was also that, yes, when you put all your integrity and heart into your work, you kind of want to be in some sort of position in life that reflects that, not one that degredates you and even curtails the best in you. So being a game designer is not my first interest any more, it's on the list, because I hate to waste some of my better ideas, but I plan to make myself in other fields of the arts.

If you really care about gaming you can always start your own company with like-minded people and do well. But the impetus just isn't there for me right now, when I see fields where I could accomplish much more. And it's not about having recognition for me, it's just about being able to get stuff done, to progress within myself.