[General Confusion]

I did this pretty much for Shiro_tengu's thread the sci-fi underwater city thing, but it started turning out pretty good in my eyes. So I started to view it as if it were a matte painting. My problem is I have never done any professionally, I know how they work, I know why their used, etc, etc.... I JUST DON"T KNOW IF WHAT I DID WOULD BE ACCEPTABLE, oops sorry for yelling

So I am asking for anyone who has done mattes professionally, if they could give me some very critical commentary, something to the likes of what an art director would say, if I handed it to one.... And I want you to be as brutal as you can possibly be, and I also encourage any paintovers... I really want to know, what I have done right or wrong, from the people who have done this type of work.

Do I need to show forms better, Do I need to have more interest in what I have, should one area be more in focus than another....

basically any help, anyone can offer would be great.... I would like to hear from Spooge, Loki, if you guys have the time, since I know you both do this type of work, (and apologies for those I may have excluded) but rip me a new one, for what I need to do to achieve the proper realism acceptable to matte work..


thanks alot





oh yeah I forgot, thsi isnt being used for a matte, I am just a fan of that form of art... I am using this for a portfolio piece, but I would liek it to mimic a matte if it could... and yeah certain elements take it out of the realm of a functional matte, and make it more of an illustration, so consider it a mutant/illustration matte... I just want to achieve some eye fooling realism, using matte theories as my foundation

and the pic is defnitely not finished ... I'm looking for some helpful commentary to get to that point..


thanks again

[ December 18, 2001: Message edited by: General Confusion ]

[Sukhoi]

Matte painting equals photorealism, yes?
Paint stroke wise, that is....

So why all this matte-talk? It seems to me that your looking for help to create a photorealistic image - eye fooling, as you say.

Sukhoi

[SporQ]

im speechless, but my mouse had to click on the reply button.

i really love everything about this piece. the lighting from the sub is great. the texture on the surfaces is just awesome. i like how you can really feel the mass of water, if i had any crit, it would be the surfaces in the background. they seem a little simplistic, just cubes and such.

and im not sure, but if its a matte, i dont know if the sub would work in this cause it would look too static in a motion shot. but thats coming from a non-matte artist.

i really have no probs with this image, but you asked for pickiness i really love the whole thing, great work man.

[Bg]

Advice from a guy who hasn't done a single matte painting in his life...

The first thing to do is to find tons (yes, tons) of reference. Think in advance every part of the image (what do you have in the image, steel, underwater rocks, submarines, water, bubbles etc.) and then head to [url=http://www.google.com's]www.google.com's[/url] excellent image search. The second thing would be to paint (or to make a 3d model) a fast sketch which shows the position of things. When it's done, cut parts of the reference images and paste over the sketch: change the colours so they fit, add detail, kill detail, shade... After 5-20 hours (depends how fast/good you are) the image should resemble a matte painting..

[General Confusion]

I'm sorry, this is not a matte.

this painting is done for illustration portfolio work, but I want to have my work become much looser and to the point, without all the fuss of endless noodling... that mattes typically display, when you see them up close (i.e. the brush strokes, etc)

this was done very quick, but I'm not totally satisfied with it. And that's why I mention mattes. I want my work to have that clean fluidity and looseness matte paintings have, but also still hold it's realism. (I know it's all about practice, but I'm looking for some commentary of what I have done so far, so I may finish it) am I going in the right direction, or am I not? What things should I expand on or clarify further? What are some things that I shouldn't be doing? Are there things I haven't addressed properly? Is the design interesting enough to hold someones eye?

This image is an illustration that I'm attempting to achieve some nice realism with, but I would like to keep it (non-noodled) and much more looser in the end result.

I'm probably wording this all wrong, and confusing the hell out of everyone (hence the screen name) but when doing this I had a matte painting in mind, and the realism qualities they display, but I feel that my drawing falls short of that level, so ultimately my question is:

what do I need to do to make this pic reach that level without alot of painstaking work (cause then I lose interest) so that's why I attribute my goal to matte work, because it has that looseness to it.... with the realism intact

and I know, it's something you learn by doing and there isn't a secret button to push, so I'm looking for some "handholding" from those who know, to perhaps send me along with better direction in what I do... similar to what you get when working with others who do the same sort of work.

I work with graphic designers, and their wow'd if you know how to start Photoshop, so I don't get that necessary criticism that helps me grow, I merely feel I keep making the same mistakes over and over again, because I have a limitation of knowledge, as to how things are seen through..

and this pic is totally made up no ref, and done with a mouse... and I know I have to work better with reference, but I could give you excuses out the wazoo, as to why I dont use any, and that's another habit I'm trying to change in my work flow

[General Confusion]

heres another reason why I had matte work in mind.. I did this marker drawing originally, and extended on it as if the marker work was the live set that needed matte enhancements..

plus, I figure I can show you this first step and let you see how I added to the pic..

[General Confusion]

I feel like the kid, who doesn't get picked in gym...

[craig]

GC,

well as far as not getting picked in gym, i know how you feel...anyway...I really like both pics, and both must have taken alot of work...particularly the first. I really like the first image but the only thing is the wheel on the low right...the structure behind it is great, but that wheel there just rips all the "suspension of reality" out for me, IMHO take out the hand wheel and you have yourself one helluva image . I really like that second marker image...that is very good...'nuff said

peace,
craig

[Shiro_tengu]

General confusion - that is fabulous! You were attempting to support my underwater conceptual, create a graphic that would bring the concept to life and create an excellent portfolio piece and you have succeeded on all counts.

It has great lighting and colouring and is rendered beautifully.

ps :lose the wheel

I can't comment on matte painting as I have no experience there (I'm in computer gaming), except to say that you certainly have the skills required.

Thankyou for supporting my thread. I love the pic.

[ December 19, 2001: Message edited by: Shiro_tengu ]

[Francis]

I already posted this reply on the concept art board, but I thought it might be useful here too...

This is a nice piece, and is definitely a departure from your other stuff (at least the stuff I've seen). Although was it you that had that cowboy entering a saloon that Craig repainted? I seem to think that was you, but I could be mistaken.

Here are my thoughts on your work, if you don't mind..

I think this could be looked at as either a piece of concept art showing the design of a submarine or underwater base, or a stand alone composed piece of artwork featuring some of your designs.

Looking at it as concept art, it would be nice to give a distinct focus on one or the other (base or sub), and really showcase the subject and illustrate what makes the design unique. There are a lot of factors on which to crit a design in a situation like that. Judging from the composition of your shot, it looks like you intended the sub to be pretty much standard sub type stuff, and is really there to give some scale and reference to the underwater base. As an architectural design piece, it's difficult to tell much about the design - the cool (cool as in "neato") lighting scheme and stuff in silhouette make it difficult to discern details.

Looking at it as a piece of art, I think you could try some composition design to create more of a focus on the subjects. I bet you already know this being a pro illustration guy, but perhaps for the benefit of the less experienced... Seems like there's a lot of opportunity with the lines of the base to direct the eye to a focal point in the image. Right now a lot of the lines seem to direct my eye off the page, or at least not to a distinct center - also, the bright values at the edges (I think they might even be the highest values in the image) compete with the other elements in the image. Like I said, I'm sure that's old hat for you, but I thought I would mention it since it caught my eye.

One other thing I think could use some love - the colors are pretty nice for a dark underwater scene like you have, but I feel like there is a lot of black and grey being used to depict darkness. There are some nice things happening with the blues in the lit areas at the bottom; I think you could carry that through to other parts of the painting, instead of simply using darker values of the blue green, or using black to darken the color. (Probably again stuff you're familiar with...) The primary color in the painting is this sort of yellow blue green - maybe reds or purples to indicate some color in the shadow areas? And then you could add some indication of depth and distance by changing the values of the areas in the image which are far away from the viewer; basically aerial perspective, but instead of blue-ing stuff out as it approaches the horizon, use the blue/green of the water. I think some underwater photo reference might be a good idea, since personally I don't have a clear picture of how that effect looks underwater.

Nice piece though - I wouldn't write a dissertation like this if I didn't like it.

Oh one other thing - loose is good. I'm working on getting that quality myself in some color arc paintings I'm doing at work. The key is to use large brushes - the bigger the better (well, to a point). Get the lighting, color and values right and the details don't matter as much.

Francis

[Highfive]

That's an amazing painting, General Confusion! I'd say you've certainly got the skills of a matte painter.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Francis:
Get the lighting, color and values right and the details don't matter as much.

---

Yeah, definitely. It only takes an hour or two to paint the light and colour values. Once those are done, you can easily tell if you're going to get the result you want.

This is the approach I took doing a pic I posted on shiro's thread.

[Loki]

I did an overpaint - quick and dirty - should show you in a clumsy way what I'd change ... very nice piece though!



I made the tunnel kinda thingy into the water surface - I realized later that it was meant to be a tunnel.
I nixed the glass door on the right to refocus the painting - what I didn't do is clarify the architecture some more - which I think is needed.
Adjusted to contrast some more. Silhouetted the guy and the sub.

Sorry for the sloppy job ...

[ January 10, 2002: Message edited by: Loki ]