Sijun Forums :: View topic - 8 HOURS on this 3d face, its HORRIBLE, Please help me!!!

dr . bang · Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2001 8:03 pm

I'm sorry, this is believe or not, my 7th attemp at creating a 3d space with spline (surface tool) And it takes me the whole day to do one like this. To me, this is HORRIBLE for 8 hours of painstaking work! i tried SO HARD on making a nice face, it start out good but it gets worst and worst as i make it.

How do you guys create your 3d faces? tell me any technique you guys use and how you start it please

I need alot of tip, hint, and advice badly.....

i use 3dmax4 btw

[ July 18, 2001: Message edited by: dr . bang ]

Briareos · Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2001 9:00 pm

Use box modeling i.e., subdivision surfaces or whatever, its easier, and more forgiving. Spline tools is a bitch. Nurbs too in Max.

Here is how I did mine, the end result is a product of much tweaking, but you can see how my mesh is totaly crappy but it still looks ok.

I recomend this approach.

[ July 18, 2001: Message edited by: Briareos ]

Molotov · Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2001 9:28 pm

Oh. I believe splines are too difficult for a newbie in organic modelling. My opinion - NURMS(meshsmooth) are much more easier to do. You can start polygonal modeling from anything you want - plane or box or single polygon. Polygonal mesh is easy to control, and you can fix some bugs in it fast enough. But splines. I tried to make somethig using splines, but...it's not for me

Here is my recent work - modelled from a piece of patch grid. Believe me, some practice and you will be able to make good mesh within several hours.

The main hint in NURMS modelling - is trying to keep only rectangles in basic mesh. If you see two triangles connecting by a common edge, just select that edge an hide it.

[ July 18, 2001: Message edited by: Molotov ]

Bishop_Six · Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2001 9:29 pm

AAAAAGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!! *runs away*

hehe, sorry man, can't help. I'm not a modeller.

dr . bang · Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2001 9:52 pm

Oh my god, thank you guys so much, i'm crying here right now, especially when i see the word "Spline tools is a bitch. Nurbs too in Max."

"Oh. I believe splines are too difficult for a newbie in organic modelling. My opinion - NURMS(meshsmooth) are much more easier to do."

After all, i'm not alone , i thought i suck at the beginning. From now on, i will focus on polymodelling!

This picture i saw in a video have lured me into spline modelling

It looks so simple but its MUCH MUCH harder than i thought when i tried it. Hopefully box modelling will be easier.

Damn, you guys are GENIUS!

Any more help is welcome, i'm right here refesh this screen once per 5 min

Molotov · Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2001 10:21 pm

One more thing - tweaking such spline model can take DAYS of concentrated work, it's a fact. Spline models are well suitable for animation, because easier to change shape of the mouth, at example.
And one more thing

When you will make good polygonal face, you can use it as a reference for creating a spline or nurbs analog. Lots of 3D artists are using this technique. Because it's much more simplier than making spline carcass referring to a ortogonal pictures.

NukleoN · Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2001 1:17 am

I agree...spline modeling blows. At least, I don't like it, and I detest editing splines.

I use Subdivision modeling (simple model with Meshsmooth or NURMS).

Try www.spiraloid.com for more on modeling.

Svanur · Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2001 1:37 am

I have to barge in here and say that I disagree, personally I love splines and the possibilites that it brings. It takes more time to model with splines but I think you have more control.

Dr. Bang: Yesterday I had the same problem with splines, but decided to visit maxforums.org and they told me what I did wrong, what you need to do with your splines is more circular splines, instead of using them as a patchup, build your model from one point in circular motion, it helps trust me. Other thing you can do is use the relax modifier. It fixes sometimes some artifacts the splines leave behind.

Here you can see what I mean.
http://www.comet-cartoons.com/toons/3ddocs/facialmodeling/modeling.html

Here is the thread I started on Maxforums.
http://www.maxforums.org/forum/forum.asp?t=28549&r=20

And here is what I did in my second try with splines and before I tried for a more organic shape.
http://www.simnet.is/hangar/gif/3d/ship02.jpg

I hope this is helpful and doesn't make you give up on splines

Shade01 · Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2001 9:47 am

IF your just beginning, start with patch or box modeling, it's easier. I'm not sure if your using references or not, but you should get some if you are not. When constructing a face, try to make the splines follow the actual muscle lines of the face, makes it easier to animate later and allows you to give higher polygon counts to the parts needed, like around the mouth, nose and ears. It's also easier to construct the eyes, nose and mouth seperately and connect them together, following the muscle lines of the cheekbone and skull.

mad · junior member Member # Joined: 16 Jul 2001 Posts: 12

i wouldn't say any one method is better than the next. it has more to do with how you think and prefer to work. with spline modeling you need to be careful of discontinuous splines, and keeping the spline density well balanced. when you overload the splines (as in the forehead of your model) it's easy to have rippling/dimpling show up.

having said that, i prefer subd modeling. i find i'm able to produce characters the fastest using that method. i also find that these subd characters animate extremely well. (if built properly to begin with) here is a head i built using subd modeling in a couple hours.

i don't know if i'd suggest you give up on spline modeling just yet. everything has its place, and learning different techniques only makes you a more versatile artist. good luck.

black_fish · Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2001 10:36 am

I hate splines too, not because it's not powerful, but just because it seems so 'alien' to build anything like that. I'm learning patch modelling right now and I'm pretty happy with the result so far. It's not too difficult to do and the results are good. Not a lot of tutorials online though... If you are interested we can talk about that in more details

dead · member Member # Joined: 18 Feb 2001 Posts: 489

I don't have a lot of expieriance in 3d, but I really think that the technique and programme you use is much less important than your fundimental understanding of anatomy. Keep drawing. Better yet, grab some clay. If something drives you crazy, consider not doing it.

NukleoN · Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2001 12:25 pm

Whatever method you prefer is what I'd recommend...but try them ALL at least a bit to see what you prefer. I have tried many different methods...regular box modeling (no Meshsmooth), Sub D, splines(Ack), surface tools(kill me please), even fit shape(ugh)...I prefer Sub D since it is the most like sculpting. Here's a head shot of my current project.

Nukie

dr . bang · Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2001 11:09 pm

hey guys, i posted this in a CG channel forum and there's a nice guy who showed me the proper way to do a spline face, i hope you guys find this useful!

elam · Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2001 11:15 pm

The most noticeable thing to me is your spline spacing. You'll the smoothest surface by keeping the splines equidistant.
Like this,

I also notice a spline coming from the corner of the eye to the cheekbone. I would loop it all the way around the face to the other eye. Try to keep the patches in quads.
And keep modeling. The only way to get better, and you will get better, is to keep doing it.
And try sub-d's. The combine, IMO, the best attributes of spline and polyginal modeling.

Good Luck,
elam

dr . bang · Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2001 6:41 pm

Holly sh*t, thanks so much guys. Damn, you guys are friggin amazing, i always wonder if you guys are like teacher at animation school or just plain jenius! I'm trying hard and will post my updated progress soon, thanks guys

starfish · member Member # Joined: 07 Feb 2000 Posts: 126

Yo dr . bang!

you might find it interesting to have a peek at www.mayaring.com/userpages/Peter_Ratner/tutorials.htm
check out The Structure of the Head and Features.
it's not the best tutorial out there but it's pretty much to the point =)

hope this helps.

lol. new record when it comes to edit short msgs
[ July 21, 2001: Message edited by: starfish ]

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M_shady · Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2001 7:02 pm

Sorry, I am a bit late. I recognize MikeRB 's lightwave four point spline image that you(Dr.Bang) posted here.

Hehe, forgive me, if Ambient Whisper find's this post, he will no doubt go Mirai all over your heads.

I'll will leave that up to him.

I think max4 has a "turn to patch" modifier that you can apply to your polygon head. Well it means you can model like simple poly head object, and turn to patch so you will have bezier handles to tweak, without touching surface tools or adding patch one by one. Worth going to www.pepeland.com to check up on this approach.

Happy modelling. Takes alot of patience to do 3d.