[stneil777]

hey everything looks great.
Oh hey forgive me man. I was just mad because i see people post work and not all of it is so great and they get good comments but from my first post everyone accuses me of cheating.
So i got kinda mad that everyone treated me different. Maybe i should just draw crapy and everyone would treat me the same, i don't know.
But i like this perpective study. The only harsh critque i have is on the second one the lins of the shadow look rugged how every that is spelled. keep up the work i like looking at your stuff.

[Nex]

Wiked Ewok: would you mind me joining you there and posting some cubes and stuff here too? It just seems like a very good idea to do that cube exercise again. I only hope someone can take time to review them.

i am not in the position to critique yours but
if i remember right the cubes should be slightly brighter on the top than near the ground because higher points get more bouncelight.. but maybe i just misunderstood something


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- Nex

Mary, sweet lady of pain, always alone
Blind you search for the truth
I see myself in you, parallel lives
Winding at light-speed through time
http://on.to/nex

[This message has been edited by Nex (edited April 08, 2001).]

[Wiked Ewok]

Go right ahead, I think it's a way good idea to start doing cubes again. Maybe we'll all get further this time And who knows, maybe Fred Flick Stone may rear is massive head at Sijun again to do some whipping.

edit: IMG


[This message has been edited by Wiked Ewok (edited April 08, 2001).]

[Nex]

okay great- I'll post some tomorrow.

[stneil777]

do you mind if i join in that also.
I understand if not i was a total ass and let my self be lowered to others levels.
But if you are forgiving like Jesus then please let me also join this cool study

[Flinthawk]

Hey Ewok, I kinda tried the same thing a couple months ago (do a search in this WIP forum for white matte cubes). Seems no one was in the mood at the time but maybe since there's more than one person interested this might go somewhere. Anyways, here's the last matte cubes I did for my thread:

Drag to Address bar =\

yeah, I know, shitty geocities but I have to until I find a job...

but yeah, this was my last attempt at it. I think I should have cleaned this up and done some smooth airbrushing instead of 'painting' it (which I also tried, using gouache).

Btw, Ewok, I can't see any of your cubes and I've tried everything I can think of to try and link to it. Maybe it's just my connection or your server having problems...dunno.

-Flinthawk

[doc rob]

I read through the entire original thread today and gave it a shot myself. I'd love to get a critique if I could.



I was also wondering if any of the other lessons that spooge and fred had planned ever happened? I saw the black cube and the Indian fellow, but I know they had much more in mind when they began. Exercises beyond the value one here with the cubes.

[Wiked Ewok]

Alright.. I need knowlegable crits here I know it's ultra late, but how's this for a shot at the matte white cube? This is 1 point perspective.


anything I"m forgeting? hrmm..cast shadow is darker than reflected lighting on backside of cube. Secondary lighting seems awkward to be but oh well...the distinction between cube and floor on the lit side is also bothering me.

[Wiked Ewok]

Here's another cube. Two point perspective.

[Wiked Ewok]

Here's the original Thread for all you guys to re-read and get inspired to re-do cubes.
http://www.sijun.com/dhabih/ubb/Forum2/HTML/002368.html

For all you ppl who think this is kids exercise, they're harder a lot than they look! I really hope someone will come by and crit are cubes. SPPOoooooOOOOOGGGEEE, hehe, you busy?

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Luck is preperation meeting opportunity

[stneil777]

i know most of youl guys don't are what i post but i am just trying to get along and hope people will just forgive like our messiah did forgive us and are father in heaven.
here are my concepts i am not sure if i was supposed to make them real white or not.
Ok the cube is supposed to be floating off the ground.

and this one i really like oh the first one from the ground is floating and each on is floating above the other



[This message has been edited by stneil777 (edited April 09, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by stneil777 (edited April 09, 2001).]

[Holly Jolly]

Must have GameCube! Ohhh, wrong board, sorry.

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Uhhhhh...hi

[Wiked Ewok]

The purpose of drawing these cubes is not to learn perspective, but rather, to learn value. Read the original thread first...ALL OF IT. Then come back Stneil. I might still forgive you..oh and don't use a 3d rendering program or I will come over there and beat the crap out of you, cops or not..military is all powerful!

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Luck is preperation meeting opportunity

[Anthony]

All the images on this page have the shadowed side lighter at the bottom-it should be the other way around, lighter at the top, darker at the bottom(unless it's a huge cube).

------------------
-Anthony
Carpe Carpem

[stneil777]

well i figured agian you would accuse me of cheating. It's because something in the second one saved wrong and the lines got messed up. But the same thing with your second box look at the line on the shadow.
But to tell my secret, it was simple i use the lasso tool in ps. Not sure what it's called but it's the one that ables you to make strait lines. So there was not 3d program. But by the way if it was this is digital art remember. just a thought.
But i used adobe ps6.
If you really still do not uder stand how i did it i could write a tutor for you. Only if you really want to learn how i do it.
Oh forgot to say a few things. In a 3d program well little of what i know about them the lines would never be so strait i think they would be smooth like the other samples. I could smooth them out, but then i really think i would be accused of something i did not use.
Oh and i have no problems with you man, you just crossed the line when you threaten my life. I have no problem with you saying you want to attempt on beating me up


[This message has been edited by stneil777 (edited April 09, 2001).]

[doc rob]

Anthony, I believe mine are lighter at the top than the bottom. If it is not visible, do i need to make the transition more evident?

I'd love to hear any other comments you or others might have

[Frost]

I actually miss those white matte primitives. Think I'll have another go at it (sometime). Wonder if Craig would care to grade and give comments though...

[Mike]

Hi. I think this is a really cool thread. I'll try to post some cubes sometime soon. I hope what i have to say can help(or is right)

I think the best thing to do is to build a white and black cube out of foamcore or matteboard and take it outside and look at it during different times of the day and make sketches of what you see. You can also do this inside at night with one strong light source. It's good to pay attention to the gradations, the relationship of value on the sides, and the direction and value of the shadow.

A few key details are gradations on the sides, a thin dark shadow outlining where the cube sits on the surface(it's a thin cast shadow) and reflected(bounce?) light(it lightens part of the cast shadow and on the number 3 side you can see a "reflection" of the cast shadow since it is not reflecting light)
I hope the quick picture helps. I'll see if I can dig up my notes and old hw from a class I had on the subject.(hope i don't sound pretentious)





[This message has been edited by Mike (edited April 09, 2001).]

[Ben Barker]

About 10 minutes with some bristol vellum and some Sobo reveals...



more confusion.

Heh. I think Mike is technically right. That's how I learned it at least. But, in this pic I believe the vellum is reflective enough to be affected by the cast shadow.

Maybe I should make a cube out of something less polished, like plastilina. But it's late.

[waylon]

This is great practice. Here's mine.



I just eyeballed the perspective, so it may be a bit off. But I think the values should be pretty accurate.

I also recently read a couple neat papers on reflections (anisotropic and otherwise), so I figured I'd include a little reflection of the cube on the surface it's sitting on, in addition to the ambient light that would normally be reflected. Can anyone tell me if I got it right?

Great thread. Guess I'll try a cone next.

[edit] Oh yeah. Once you've finished your cube, play with the brightness and contrast a bit. If you did it right the first time, it should look correct no matter what the brightness/contrast are set to. It's a good way to pick out your own mistakes. [/edit]

[This message has been edited by waylon (edited April 10, 2001).]

[Mike]

Great job, waylon. It looks really good. You might need to switch your number two side with your number one side since your shadow is showing that your cube is being hit with light from up and to the left. Maybe make your number two side a bit darker and make the gradation more evident in your 3 side. Other than that, and you've got yourself a winner.

[This message has been edited by Mike (edited April 10, 2001).]

[Staff Sarge]

Here's mine...



Looks goofy I know but I'm practicing really hard... (yeah, sure I am)

[burn0ut]

does anyone have like a diagram of how to make the box?
im not sure how to cut the lips that you glue...

[waylon]

Staff sarge: Looking decent, but a couple pointers, mostly for the dark side of the box, and the box's shadow. First, on the dark side... you've got a white border between the box and its shadow. At that point, the box should actually be at its darkest point (due to the fact that the least light is hitting it.) You should also be making the top of the dark side of the box lighter than any of the rest of that side. Ideally, it should be a smooth gradient, from dark at the bottom, to light at the top.

Now, as for the shadow... I think you got the basics right - darker near the box, lighter farther away. There's one problem though. You drew in a reflection of the cube, but a reflection will never, ever make a surface darker - only lighter.

Erm. Well. I guess there's sort of an exception. If the floor was reflecting a bright white ceiling, then by comparison, the cube's reflection would look darker. If that's what you were trying to do, then you did a pretty good job. But if not... well, there are some great tutorials which deal with reflections here: http://www.neilblevins.com/cg_education/cg_education.htm (especially #17).

Oh, and I figured I'd re-post this picture from the original cube lessons thread, since it's so useful.

[Wiked Ewok]

waylon: Are you sure that the bottom of the darkside needs to be darkest? In Fred's 3d renders they look lighter than the top of the darkside. My opinion is that when the light reflects off the surface and hits the cube, it has to travel the least distance at the bottom, hence the brighter. And more distance to reach the top of the cube, making that part a bit darker.

A note on the shadow: I think it depends whether you are using sunlight or an incadescent light. Sunlight would make the shadows crisp and only a subtle gardient from darker to dark. A weak light source would create a blurred shadow, like in Staff's pic.

[Staff Sarge]

Thanks waylon, I heard you and did a 15min rework with my cube, you should see the replaced version up there. I think it's somewhat better but far, far from perfect. I decided to try something new and added a wet sand platform (or at least tried to) and fixed some of the areas.

I'll be reading through all the material here and doing some exercises, they're really fun and quick! I'm looking forward to learn a lot.

[waylon]

Ewok: I don't think that the distance the light has to travel is a very significant factor when you're working on something of this scale. Here's the way I understand it (and why it should be darker at the bottom):

Imagine you're sitting at the bottom of a big box - twelve feet high, for instance. If you're sitting in the shadow, what are you going to see? A decent part of your view (say, 1/3) is taken up by the shadow of the box, then maybe another 1/3 by the ground that isn't shadowed, then 1/3 by the sky.

Now, if you were to climb to the top of the box and look out in the same direction, the shadow would be down below you, and might only take up 1/8 of your view. The rest would be bright ground and sky.

So, essentially, when you're sitting on the ground, there's a lot less light hitting you than when you're sitting on the top of the cube.

You can think of the shadow the same way. If you're laying on the ground, looking up at the sky, where do you see the most sky? Farther away from the box. Hence, the farther away you get, the more light you see, and the lighter the shadow is.

Make sense? If not, I can try drawing a diagram. (might make a good cube exercize in itself...)

[Mike]

In reference to where the darkest part of the number 3 side of cube is, i think necessarily it doesn't matter so much as what you see, but how you use that to make your drawing or sketch work better.

By making it darker at the top, it creates more contrast between all 3 sides of the cube than if it were reversed. If it were the opposite, the biggest problem would be that the cast shadow and 3 side would start to blend together.

It's all just lying to make it read better. But it's just an opinion

on the fuzzy/crisp shadow thing. it matters what time you take them outside and the weather. at noon you'll have a crisp jet black shadow. but early in the morning it'll look fuzzyish and weak(same when it's overcast)

here's darker in bottom


and darker in top

here's some of my old hw. it's charcoal on 19x24 canson paper. the perspective is total wrong, but i think the gradations good.





[This message has been edited by Mike (edited April 10, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by Mike (edited April 10, 2001).]

[doc rob]

Mike,

I think a reason why your way works better in your drawings is because of the lines you have along the edges of the cubes. Shading it darker at the top makes them less obvious and puts more emphasis on the value. I think that if you did the same experiment with Photoshop and without the lines, you would see the difference. In addition, I think the transition between the base of side 3 and the cast shadow could very well be subtle in some lighting conditions since they are both matte white.

[waylon]

I'm with doc on this one. Shading it that way DOES emphasize the form, but it just doesn't look right. To me, anyway.

If you follow Fred's rules about placing the bright side's value in the 1-4 range, and the dark side's value in the 7-10 range, there should be plenty of contrast.