[The Magic Pen]

3 - F*** em who needs the headacke

[-HoodZ-]

i think Frog had the best suggestion....i would be clouded by the money and ask for more more more!

[micke]

Allright here's the situation, i agreed on doing 5 halfpage illustrations for a client. The illustrations includes around 20 detailed characters. I got some descriptions + reference in the beginning explaining everything in good detail..The characters were suppose to represent different Alien-species and you were suppose to see the the differences in anatomy and size/height. This is fine.

I made all the sketches and sent them over.
The art director seemed to like them, but
they needed to be approved by other people first. Now it took some time before i got any feedback around 4 weeks to be exact.
Now i did one stupid thing..I started to ink some of them while i was waiting for feedback, just in case to prevent a stressful period before deadline.

The feedback finally came today. Offcourse there were some changes and they pointed out some minor mistakes done by me. This is normal and something i always expect.
What upsets me is that they now want all the characters
to interact(!) instead of seeing them straight forward..This was never mentioned at all in the beginning

This means that i have to scrap all of my work i've done til now + doing everything from scratch.

What shall i do? I suggested an option wich
could comprimise their suggestion wich meant using the allready existing material with a few modifications and i'm waiting
for their reply now.

If they don't agree i could always:
1.swallow my anger and just do it wich will take alot more time and my other projects will suffer.

2.Do it and ask for more money.

3.Just say no and walk away with no money at all.

This is frustrating for me, especially since
i've done so much allready.

Could any of you give me a suggestions on what i could do? Please!

[ August 22, 2002: Message edited by: micke ]

[Frog]

First point Michael: always always always work with a contract to cover your ass when clients are difficult!!! I can send you something over to you if you need it, but it will be a UK version so you will need to adapt it to the US. With a contract you can hold a client down to the original written brief and also ensure you get cancellation fees if they kill the job and extra money for extra work etc...

That said, in this situation you need to explain to your client that what they are asking is not part of your original brief and quote. Most clients understand this, anyone can see that changing the goalposts half way through is going to create extra work for you.

I would ask for more money, if they say no then call their bluff and say you no longer want the job, but explain your reasons carefully. Do not just do it, they probably know they are pushing their luck and need to be told, otherwise they will think you and illustrators in general are a pushover. Stand your ground and be business like. You are a very talented guy and you know you will get more work so you shouldn't let anyone push you around.

I think that in 90% of situations most clients will come round if you explain yourself, I have been in your situation several times and it's always worked out ok, so don't panic

Good luck!

[vurx]

i would suggest doing a few rough drawings of the characters interacting, very rough, not more than a few hours work. show them and say you can do them all but you will need more money and time. its only fair - if they ask for more - you ask for more.

-- vurx

[Ian Jones]

It seems that 2 is the pretty clear and only option. I agree with what Frog said. Some very interesting discussion in here.

[B0b]

def ask for more time and more money, did u have a contract?

do you have terms and contitions?

[ZippZopp]

i think what vurx said hits it right on the head...they are asking for more, so you're gonna have to ask for either more money, more time or both...i think vurx is right here

[ceenda]

They'll be asking you for some "quick matte pics" next...

Honestly, don't be bullied into working more for no pay when you've already agreed with them the work that's to be done.

Clients are annoying. Give them an inch, they'll take a mile.

[blankfrank]

2.Ask for more money. Before you do anything, they may change their mind when they see the added fee increase.

Yep, protect yourself, if they're unreasonable you don't want to work for them anyhow.

[zou]

hello frog, i'm in a situation like that but not art, it's a digital work (presentation) can you post your contract or terms and conditions just to have an idea.
thanks

[Spectra]

It would be very nice from Frog to post a copy of a contract, it could help many of us from having problems. (We can go see a lawer on our own afterward to make modifications. Also already having material might cost less lawer fee than if he had to write it from scratch.)

Guillaume Le Tual

[Frog]

I've uploaded a text version of my contract, it's not layed out though, as I wanted to keep my layout for myself

It's based on UK copyright law so would need altering for use elsewhere. The whole premise of the contract is that you are selling reproduction rights on your copyright. The professional way to market your work is to sell clients the rights to reproduce your images on a limited and strrictly defined shedule, which means that they have to pay you for every sort of usage they need ands every time they want to reuse your work they must pay you again. This is the same sort of principle that means musicians get money everytime their songs are played on the radio. Always make sure that you hang on to your copyright unless you are offered a lot of money, copyright is the commodity you are selling and it is worth a lot.

There is also a set of terms and conditions to ensure you get cancellation fees, a penalty for late payment and other stuff.

The contract is here

[ceenda]

UK copyright law suits me juuuuuuuust fine...

Thanks Frog.

[Spectra]

Tnx Frog, and good luck Micke.

Sincerely

Guillaume Le Tual

[micke]

Thanks everybody for your replies.
Guess what. It got sorted out nicely.
I just wrote back with my suggestion and
they agreed on it.
Frog: This was a US contract work. I believe there was some minor communication between the artdirector and the guy that were gonna approve it. Phew..I'm glad it worked out in the beginning. I was seriously thinking of not completing the illustrations at one point..

Thanks again everybody!
I'll post the work soon in the finished gallery

-Mikael