[eyewoo]

I have a client for whom I did two images in Photoshop. I provided the client with final masters in TIF format. Now he is trying to tell me that he paid for the artwork and wants the original Photoshop files. I've informed him that the original files conatain secrets of the trade, so to speak, and are my property. I even told I would isolate the main elements on separate layers and provide him with new masters. He's insisting he wants the originals... I say he's way off-base. Am I right?

[Dr. Bang]

hmmmmmm, dont know, if i were you, i would just flatten the layer, or merge most of the super secret layer together.

[eyewoo]

My point is that a PSD file is just one of the tools involved in putting together a final piece. What the client pays for is the final work. If the original agreement called for isolating elements on separate layers, then that would of course have to be part of the delivery piece. That was not the case here... and even though I've offered to isolate some of the elements on separate layers at no additonal cost, this guy is insisting on getting the original PSDs...

[Drunken Monkey]

If it wasnt in the original agreement I would charge extra for that.

[Mindsiphon]

Any time a client wants the original psd I always send it to them after I flatten all layers and make a copy for myself.

[henrik]

Eywoo, I say flatten the image and send him the .PSD file. He's paying for the result, nothing more, nothing less.

[Danny]

Comparing that to the traditional trade, it would be like asking a conventional artist for all his thumbnail sketches, colour designs, masks, etc... Rediculous ofcourse when thought of it like this. However for some reason clients seem to expect diffirent rules when the work is digital.
Just because you can, doesn't mean you should...
Providing the seperate elements, yes, understandable. Anything more than that strikes me as suspicious.
A lesson learned when you draft your next contract.

[eyewoo]

Danny,

There was no contract for this job... someone totally new to me who agreed to pay full payment via PayPal before I started work. The money arrived I did the job with very little in the way of specs... When I delivered, the client said he was very happy with the work and I thought that would be the end... but noooooo...

One of the odd things about this client is that he seems reluctant to either send me a phone number or snail-mail address... Not my normal client...

[Dr. Bang]

I smell something bad here. This is the internet, he require to send you all of those information. Unless he works in the pentagon.

[hans_e]

Its too bad that there was no signoff. Signoffs are very handy after your work is complete and is ready to be handed to the client. I used to pick the people that i thought I were honest and knew exactly what they wanted. I still got burned quite often (especially by my university--Yay Purdue).

Your client doesn't want to be known, eh? Thats kind of shady (Like Boris from the Bulwinkle cartoon). I can imagine this guy lurking in an alley contacting you through a laptop that runs through a triangulted satalite system so he cant be pinpointed.

Thats just plain wierd!

[Pigeon]

It's a rare case where you should do a job without a contract. Even with friends, you should seriously think about making a contract, as experience for you as an artist, and your friend as a client. Also, by making things explicit in writing, it may help to retain your friendship if things go awry.

In this specific case, the final file format should have been stated in the contract. Usually I'm pretty nice if someone wants a different file format, unless it's something like converting from photoshop to quark. So just give him a flattened PSD. But do not feel obligated to give him the original file. All he was buying was the right to use the final image. It's similar to traditional illustration - the buyer can reproduce the image, but doesn't own the paper with the drawing.

[Pat]

Your client is the one who's being screwed without the contract. His only legal claim to the original PSD files would have to exist there. In fact, according to copyright law, he doesn't even own the image itself unless you've waived all rights to it in written form. Unless you've specifically signed what's called a "Work for Hire" contract, wherein the party commissioning the work is considered the author, it sounds like your TIF file satisfies your arrangement --barring any other unmentioned agreements.

[Germ01]

When my partner and I sign on a new contract with a company we try to get a purchase order (P.O.) I'm not sure what its called in the U.S. This P.O will usually entail as to what the client is getting and for how much based on the quote that we gave them. Now we've had in the past clients asks us for the complete files (not flattened, there not stupid ) And its to my understanding they want it so that they can make changes to it when they want. They don't want to feel they have to go back to the merchant to change something. (It sucks for us) Another reason why the want all the files is what if the company their dealing with goes under. Than what? There stuck with a flattened image they can't do anything with. Now they have to pay another company to do the samething they paid you do but with alterations done to it and its going to be costing them more money. So my advice is to give them "Zie Documents".

[Gort]

Pat is right. Just like photographer retains the negatives of a shoot, you retain the PSDs - they're the master files. It's a good idea to try and get these things cleared away before starting work. As Pats states, you typically give the client a license for usage - that's what they typically pay for. Your client is not entitled to the original work. If they want the original PSDs, the cost for the work goes into the stratosphere for them, because your handing over everything and waiving any right to it.

If the client is unwilling to work with you on this, then you may have to write it off as a lesson learned. Maybe...

[ July 26, 2002: Message edited by: Tom Carter ]

[zak]

try to find out why he wants the psd file. maybe from the you can take it further, but id tell him to go screw himself, just charge him the full for each layer, as if it was a separate image (hint* make sure you add shitloads of layers) i can only see one reason, and that is him being an artist interested in your technique which means that a .psd would be most helpful!!! beware, i know that most of us here would like to get their hands on one of these!

[eyewoo]

OK... its cool now. After I sent a few well worded salvos his way explaining the situation, he has actually apologized. I'm sending him what I originally offered, PSD files at the development size, but flattened on two layers - a background layer and a character layer.

After his apology, I may even do more work for him if he asks...

[Dr. Bang]

but father, did he send you his contact address?

[Anthony]

That's good. I never work without a contract signed, sealed, and delivered. Just saves headaches. I tend to let some source files go, if it'll help the production along(ie; if they have in-house people who need to make changes to it or incorporate it in some way), but keep as much to myself as possible.

[eyewoo]

Bang... ha ha ha ha... nope... I think he is an exceptionally strange person and at this point I am not really sure I want to know anything more about him... Actually, I'm no totally sure it's a him... could be anybody, eh...

Oh well... as stated earlier, the full payment was in my PalPay account before I even started the project... so... I'm happy... Money in hand is somewhat better than a contract, eh!

[Drunken Monkey]

Now i'm curious, what was the artwork of?

[Lunatique]

A simple solution to possible future problems as such:

"I don't work with many layers. I always flatten like Craig Mullins, so there's only one layer."

[Socar MYLES]

Perhaps you can reach a compromise with him so that both of you come away from the deal at least somewhat happy. I've had my share of jerk clients (including one horror story where we actually ended up physically fighting over an oil painting in my front hallway, and the neighbours had to threaten to call the cops to make the customer leave!)

In your case, I would offer him a two-layered image, with the sketch on one layer and the finished painting on another. There is absolutely no reason he'd need a .psd with more layers than that, unless he wants to use particular picture elements on their own for some reason (assuming you even painted separate elements on separate layers!) If he does want to do that, you could try explaining to him that he has not purchased the rights to modify your image, which presenting the layers separately would constitute.

Best of luck...I hope you get everything sorted out.

EDIT - Oops--just re-read your post and realized you already tried to work out a compromise! I must be away with the fairies today.... Anyway, in that case, the best I can suggest is patiently trying to explain to him that in digital art there really are no "originals", and that full-resolution PSD files are considered the standard for "master copies" or "originals" within the digital industry.

Have you actually told him how many layers you used? If not, you COULD just comply...but merge any layers you don't want him seeing first. That is not exactly honest, but he won't know the difference. It's well-nigh impossible to tell how many layers a digital image was painted in without actually looking at the master .psd. Hell, a lot of people (myself included) do almost everything on one layer. He has no way of knowing if what you give him is the "original" version or no.

[ July 26, 2002: Message edited by: Socar MYLES ]

[eyewoo]

Dr. Monkey... A man holding the world in an outstreched hand and a woman holding the symbol of science in an outstretched hand - both full frontal nudity... I'm showing them small... it was a job... I'm a whore...

[toiletPhish]

wow that man is hung like a horse~!

[ July 27, 2002: Message edited by: toiletPhish ]

[Basement bound]

toiletphish- I think that eyewoo used a personal refrence for that.

[eyewoo]

nah... it was a contest... guess who won...?

[HaRdC0rePixxX]

a girl holding the symbol of science and a hung- like-a-horse man holding the world ???
science/genetic engineering + belief/power/money = perfect world with nude chicks and big cocks.

man, you are working for a sect.

[ July 27, 2002: Message edited by: HaRdC0rePixxX ]

[eyewoo]

Yup... HaRdC0rePixxX you hit the target perfectly... Understand, I just did a job, I don't subscribe..

[HaRdC0rePixxX]

well, it means your pic is really great. it's just perfectly suited for the theme.
great artwork dude !

[ken]

that's... just... bizarre.

-Ken