[Ludwig]

I remember seeing a step-by-step series somewhere showing Mullin's working procedure -- blocking in large areas, roughing in lighting, etc. (I think it was of one of his Marathon illos.) I can't find it on goodbrush.com; anyone know where I might find this?

[-HoodZ-]

hmm your member 1831 and your just posting now? wow...well i remember a little animation done by Craig...i cant find that either....

[Loki]

How about finding your own process (& style)?

... of course looking at Craig's images is enormously inspireing, but do you guys really think a step by step tutorial will make you a good digital painter???
One can tell heaps from just looking at his paintings too btw ...

[and sorry for trolling - but I just couldn't resist ]

Just waiting for the day when somebody is proudly showing off the 'spooge demon' plugin for photoshop they created ...

[ June 11, 2002: Message edited by: Loki ]

[Lunatique]

What Loki said.

Studying his steps won't help much if you don't have his KNOWLEDGE. Truth is, Craig could use a completely different approach and still have a beautiful piece of work done. Instead of learning his steps, learn by analyzing his understanding of values, colors, edges, forms..etc.

[Ludwig]

I have my own style. I'm not looking for "Be A Great Digital Illustrator in 5 Easy Steps," just the insight into his working method that I recalled getting from the piece in question.

[worm]

i disagree (but who's gonna listen to me )
step by step tutorials helps a lot.. even if it is 'copying' his 'style'.. who cares.. nothing matters when youre starting out... try everything...
its very sad when people get discouraged just cause a few people dont approve
i doubt craig would mind

there was a step by step tutorial he did for a website i think a while back.. not sure which. it would be cool if someone posted the link

[Loki]

that 'step by step' animation disappeared ... probably because Craig has no problem with it, right?

Don't get me wrong - looking at Craig's stuff helped me a lot too - and especially - gave me courage to paint looser and made me explore more.

So - whatever - the step by step was taken down ... good luck finding your 'insight' ...

[worm]

nope...
found it.. i dunno what the animation is though

i was talking about this http://www.wetcanvas.com/ArtSchool/Digital/PhotoshopSuit/

[Ludwig]

Yeah, that's the stuff. Thanks!

[Vhy]

Heh, you could learn that technique from old masters as well.

[Lunatique]

worm- actually, Craig was VERY concerned when people started copying his style and using his techniques. It meant him losing clients to other illustrators who copied his style offering services at lower fees. He took down some stuff from his site because of that problem. But, he's a generous soul, and he never gave up on sijun, and still participates and helps peopl out today.

He's well aware that what happened to Drew Struzan, an artist he admires and respects, could also happen to him, and that's why he was concerned. (Drew's style was so copied that his career took a nose-dive and never recovered).

[Ian Jones]

Useless rant...

I totally agree with the ideology that everybody should have there own style. I think that it is really helpful to get insight into other artists work.

From what I have noticed it seems that ppl around here tend to 'jump on' and 'turn there backs up' as soon as a question like this arises (I'm guilty too). Perhaps the intentions behind Ludwigs questions were mis-interpreted. As I understand it he only wants insight, not blatant copying.

It is good however, the way we stand up for each other. I geuss I'm just trying to make ppl aware that they should be a little more tolerant, otherwise flame threads quickly spiral out of control.

Just something I noticed...

[Gort]

Both arguments here are valid:
I am personally in favor of step by step tutorials - digital or traditional, because they do help educate on the processes involved in getting a result. Emulation (or copying as some of you may retort) is often beneficial in honing the skillset needed to ideally act as a catalyst for ones own style. By doing so one should at some point down the road "get it" and be comfortable with the medium and thus start rolling that skillset into their own unique way of doing things.

As for these weasels out there, it is unfortunate that there are a few bad apples that have spoiled the bunch (those not developing their own way but rather exploiting others). It does more harm than good, for it fosters distrust within the ranks of the community (obviously this one). Bummer dude.

[worm]

very 'iffy' grounds..
i have NO experience with being an illustrator who deals with these 'copying' issues so i dont think i wanna go into that but i think he did the tutorial to help and thats what it does..
its upto the person learning from the tutorial to choose whether he wants to continue using craigs style in his career or be more personal and do something original..

its wrong (in my opinion ) to tell people to go off and find their own original style without even letting them learn from craigs tutorial

[fuel_99]

are you aware that when your every word and every stroke is discussed and interpreted for months and years to come it takes out a lot of the fun posting paintings or advice here?

explore yourself-

[JFreak]

Personally, I think that when it comes to learning about art (or anything for that matter) that it's often one part instruction and two parts practice. I think that �Tutorials� are just a modern way of teaching. I think method tutorials and lessons will always be more useful than step-by step ones. Although, those can be handy once in a while too.

Teach a man to fish...

[Evifnagol]

In as much as I hate to add my voice to the cacophony here...

I personally think any kind of "tutorial" or lesson is great. I personally thank my lucky stars for the day I saw Dhabih's site three years ago. His tutorial inspired me to buy my own stylus and take what used to be okay-ish pencil drawings on random sheets of paper and turn them into colorful expressions of my personal angst. Inspiration and technique are all that seperate the guy on the street from those that call themselves "artists." You don't have to teach (or post) your style to anyone... there are just a lot of folks out there eager to express themselves, yearning to make their art as beautiful (or dark) as those they emulate. Some may not be flattered by this, and it is up to them to guard their secrets and reasons. Picasso and Matisse were rivals until they shared their views. They became honored friends.
My son likes to trace images from his comics. I encourage it -- some day he may try drawing on his own, some day he may paint a masterpiece. Who cares, as long as he's got a need to express himself, he can have every trick I've ever known.
If you want to horde your knowledge, feel free. If you want to educate, speak up. If you want to learn, ask.

[ken]

one of the ways i learn art is by imitating other artists. doing things like disney, or craig, or roundeye, or mike mignola can really open your eyes to how people see things. i was recently priviledged enough to contribute the the pvp guest week (that hasn't actually been published yet), and that was a really good experience.

of course, finding your own visual language and techniques is what art is all about. not everyone gets that, i suppose, but for me, the closer the art comes to how i feel and see uniquely, the better an artist i am.

-Ken

[Leroy]

i have to agree with ian that people raise their claws as soon as craig's name is mentioned in the same sentence as tutorial. It's almost like it's becoming a curse.

I never understand why people automatically assume that reading a tutorial by someone is the same as copying. The one thing i've learned from craigs tutorials is how to use photoshop, mainly the interface. 'part from that i learned basic artlesson that he no doubt learned from others. Not how he holds his brush or what he eats before starting a paper.

[Ludwig]

Jesus H. Cunt, I swear I din't mean to generate such an impassioned debate. All's I wuz axin for was the location of a particular previously published bit showing the very simple basics of working up and down from a midtone. This was not in service of an effort to "imitute you exultly" or rip off anyone's style or take a shortcut to Big Money The Matte Painting Way. I was simply asking where a particular thing I'd seen before could be found. All snippy assumptions as to my implicitly cheap motives vis-a-vis said inquiry are sorely misguided, if understandably so, given the apparent volume of "TEECH ME 2 PAYNT LIKE MULINS BUT I DONT WANT TO DIK AROWND WITH LIFE DRAWNG CLASSES THET I THOT WUD HAVE HOT GURLS BUT IS RILLY JUST WRINKLY OLD HIPPYS" posts. Look, I have little to no interest in undercutting anyone's rates with cheaper low-quality approximations. I don't even do painterly modeled 3D looking stuff -- strictly Klare Lijn, albeit somewhat less figuratively stylized. I was just asking if anyone knew where this particular quote tutorial unquote was.

Anyway, if someone were skillful enough to reasonably approximate a Mullins piece in the first place, they sure wouldn't need any friggin fundamental baby-step walkthrough. So relax.

I know y'all appreciate constructive criticism, but does that appreciation really extend to questioning the conceptual value of drawing an impeccable rendition of Spider-Man or a Warhammer 40K marine or second-generation pseudo-Jap mecha or some juvenile Dungeons & Dragons genre nonsense? I'm no out-on-an-onanistic-limb modern art fag robot, but I do believe that technical execution, while important, is secondary to the idea behind what you're doing.

I guess I've driven this topic way off into the weeds now, but I hope maybe it gives someone pause to reflect on the qualitative difference between some really awesome Wolverine pinup and something like this.

[Frog]

I want to be very careful what I say here as a relative newcomer, but I really cannot help noticing the often patronising replies that many regulars post here, especially (but not always) to newbies. A question was asked, politely and straightforwardly, and the poster was immediately accused of being a copyist and condescended to. This happens all the time on this board...

Having been a member of some board for a year or two does not make you better than others. Having some artistic ability does not give you a license to be rude or condenscending to others, whether they have such ability or not. Since we are all here to learn of each other it might be nice to foster a more brotherly and helpful spirit, don't you think?

Best put on my asbestos knickers now

[worm]

well said frog.. that number indicating when a person joined isnt a gauge for how much to disrespect them

[ken]

well, actually, i thought we were just talking about copying/tutorials/learning in general now, rather than judging your fate, ludwig.

and yes, frog, this place isn't very newbie friendly. it's probably because there have been so many newbs here, people get fed up telling them the same things.

-Ken

[Pigeon]

Well, one of the problems with coming up with your own style at a forum like this, is that there is a narrow focus of what acceptable styles are. If you gather the most popular and praised pieces here, they are all very much the same in relation to the broader art world.

If you want praise from this forum, do the step-by-steps and paint like Craig or Loki, or any of dozens of others. Otherwise... heck, look at the step-by-steps anyway, whether you accept or reject the technique. You'll learn something either way.

[Blind]

Frog: Well put. And what you said can apply to almost any situation where humans tend to congregate.

IMHO, I wish the Member #'s & Rate Member link would go away. Not that it would help.

[ken]

quote

Quote:

IMHO, I wish the Member #'s & Rate Member link would go away. Not that it would help.

that sounds interesting. but i worked so hard for my stars!

and what's with you people with sub 500 members numbers but less than 250 posts?

-Ken

[Blind]

quote

Quote:

and what's with you people with sub 500 members numbers but less than 250 posts?

Hehe... I've been here since the early days. I read a lot of what gets posted here, but I don't say much. I'm very new at digi-painting, and don't have much to offer in the way of advice, so I keep quiet. I'd rather just learn from all the massively talented people in here as I try to develop my skills. Maybe someday when I've got some skills built up, I can return the favor to the newer generation of Sijun members? I hope so...

[Catfish]

Hmmm...
/posts for the sole reason of finding his member number.

[-HoodZ-]

i lurk...

[ June 15, 2002: Message edited by: -HoodZ- ]

[digistyle]

Drew Struzan? Isn't that the guy who does the movie posters? Most recently the Harry Potter, Star Wars Wars: Attack of the Clones, & Crocodile Hunter movies. Seems to be pretty sought after to me (especially with all of the Stars Wars related work.). What was he doing before the "downturn"?

digistyle
(Another occasional poster)