[Basse_Ex]

I'm using photoshop to line up my perspective these days. Which is a bit of a boring process.
So I was wondering if there's any plug-in or similar that can create a perspective grid in photoshop that you can manipulate and add to as you want. Or do I have to do it the old way?

(I've tried a quick Google search, but only found plug-ins that make the image elements in perspective... which isn't what I need.)

[Ian Jones]

Try using Illustrator. I have a feeling, I don't know for sure, but I think you can set the guides to an angle of your choice. That means you can set up a perspective grid to work on. I think...! merely speculation.

[Basse_Ex]

Hmmm.... these days it more and more seems like I've gotta get myself illustrator....

Thanks anyhow.

[Pat]

Painter 7 has a build in perspective grid. At first I thought it was kinda gimmicky, but it's really pretty cool.

-Pat

[Jin]

The Painter 7 perspective grid is fun at first.. for about 3 minutes. It's very limited and only has a single horizontal plane that can be moved up or down and single vertical plane that can be moved left or right. There are three default presets that are nearly the same, though both the horizontal and vertical planes open in different positions in each of the three default presets.

It's extremely limited, IMO, and cumbersome to boot.. (and this from an avid Painter lover).

Maybe the Painter developers will improve it, but for now.. well.. it's not worth the bother.

(There are only a few paragraphs in the Painter User Guide that don't add much, if anything, to what is easy to discover on your own.)

If someone can tell me how it's better than I think.. I'll be most happy to listen/read.

[Basse_Ex]

Thanks.

Hmmm... single horizontal and vertical plane? You mean it can only set up 1-point perpsctives?
If so then it's pretty useless.

But I don't have painter 7 anyhow so...

... are anyone of you familliar with any 3D editors where you can import sketches and build upon them? I thought I read somewhere that Bryce could do it, but I've heard so much shit about Bryce also.
Freeware\shareware would be ideal. I only have Milkshape 3D, and I tried to see if I could find some similar function there, but no luck as of yet.

[Ian Jones]

make some meshes, planes. You gotta render them as wireframes. then you have a 3d grid.

[Basse_Ex]

Yes, I'd have them as a grid, but are there programs where you could make this on top of a drawing?

(I usually sketch my perspectives loosely without rulers or complex grids, then put the accurate perspective in later by hand. But what I'm looking for is a way of doing the same thing, but without having to do it by hand. I hate them rulers).

[Jin]

quote:

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Originally posted by Basse_Ex:
Thanks.

Hmmm... single horizontal and vertical plane? You mean it can only set up 1-point perpsctives?
If so then it's pretty useless.

<SNIP>

---

Yep, and when you grab the near edge of the vertical plane grid to drag it from left to right, for instance, it doesn't pivot on the vanishing point. Instead, the entire plane moves to the left. This would be useful sometimes, but not if you want to establish both left and right planes vanishing to the same point.

Or am I missing something obvious? ???

[Pat]

If you need to draw in perspective often --especially if you're trained to use "contruction lines" -- the perspective tool is invaluable. It takes all the hard work out keeping track of all your vanishing points, especially those nasty distant ones which often need to be plotted off the page. It's not an all-in-one solution for all your perspective needs, but when used with layers it helps you get the most useful of all shapes: a properly rendered 3D cube.

I'm not going to get into a lot of technical perspective rendering lessons here since you can easily pick up a number of helpful books on this. I recommend "Perspective for Comic Book Artists" --the title is unfortunate, but the book is excellent. In any event, Painter's perspective grid allows you to create accurate cubes in perspective; and from cubes you can create nearly any shape you desire including cones, cylinders, cones, etc.


Excuse my rough screen grabs... I'm on a bad deadline and these are very rushed. Just think of them as rough indications of what I'm trying to illustrate. Your first step is to set up the perspective grid and mark your vanishing point.



I want a "3x3 cube", so on a new layer I mark off the following points:



Next, drag the vertical perspective grid so it intersects the two points on the right hand side. Count up 3 units directly above these points. Connect these dots and you should have something that looks like the following:



Congratulations, you've created a cube. I feel like making a paint can (since this is painter) so I opt to transform the cube into a cylinder. To do this, I first draw an "X" to find the center of the top and bottom planes of my cube. Once I've got the center point, I badly fudge another "X" which divides the plane into 1/4's. I kinda screwed this part, since they ought to be more in perspective, but I don't have time to fix it. Just remember to use the perspective grid to draw a straight line between the vanishing point and the "middle of the plane point". Using these new outside points as guidelines, I rough in 2 circular forms.



From there it's a simple matter of connecting the top and bottom rings and I've turned my cube into a cylinder. Render away.



Using this simple technique you can make extremely complex objects from collections of overlapping cubes. When you render them on paper all those construction lines can clutter and confuse you very quickly. Using layers, you can manage them easily and accurately in Painter.

Likewise, with a little creative thinking you can also create 2 and 3 point perspective. There are limitations to the tool, including the inability to rotate the grid independently of the paper angle. However, it's far more efficient than anything than Photoshop has to offer.

-Pat

[ May 04, 2002: Message edited by: Pat ]

[Torstein Nordstrand]

Thanks for taking the time, Pat. I thought the grid too clumsy to bother with, but you've convinced me to devote some minutes on it. Who knows, maybe later I'll remember to actually use it when I bump into problems.

And I'll second the book recommendation. If you're confused about the perspective terms used in this thread, order it at Amazon - it's both educative and entertaining.

Thanks

[Basse_Ex]

Hmmm... that doesn't sound too bad... since I know my perspective basics, it actually sounds pretty perfect...(Doing it all in 3D would be boring for me, I think).
This perspective grid... does it accidently happen to be in painter 6 also?

Otherwise... well... then I need to somehow get a hold of painter 7.

Thanks for taking the time.

[Jin]

Pat,

Thanks for the demo. You did point out a few things I hadn't bothered to do.

If you ever find time, it would be great to see how you use your creative imagination to do 2 and 3 point perspective using Painter's perspective grid.

If not.. what you've already shown us is great.

Thanks again!

[Jin]

quote:

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Originally posted by Basse_Ex:

<SNIP>

This perspective grid... does it accidently happen to be in painter 6 also?

Otherwise... well... then I need to somehow get a hold of painter 7.

Thanks for taking the time.

---

Nope, it doesn't accidentally happen to be in Painter 6 also.. sorry.

Guess you'll just have to get a hold of Painter 7.

There's a Painter 7 demo you can download .. good for 30 days. The URL is:
http://www.procreate.com/go/painter_trial/