[Lunatique]

I have no illusions about what the nature of illustration work is, but recently something bothered me.

You see, when an editor gives you detailed instructions for an image they've hired you to create, you expect it, and you live with it because you know exactly what you were getting into.

But, when an individual commissions a piece from you privately, you would think this person is not only buying your technical skills as an artist, but an admirer or your creative vision and emotional inspirations.

Well, to make a long story short, this guy wants a commission, but he is giving me an extremely detailed instruction on an idea that to me seems cheesy. I was not enjoying it at all. While working on it, I thought to myself, "If I were to do a piece with this theme, what would I do for myself?"

Then, inspiration stuck me, and I had an idea that connected me emotionally to the piece, and the inspiration was so strong that I had to do it.

I emailed the guy and told him about my vision, asking him if he would rather have a piece that was emotionally inspirational to me to paint, or would he rather still have me carry out his instructions.

Well, the dude pretty much still wanted me to do his thing.

Now, a commission is a commission, and you shouldn't take on one if you don't think you'd want to do it. But this particular case just bothered me.

Why would someone rather have the artist do a piece that he/she felt nothing for, and couldn't care less about, instead of having a piece with the same theme that came from the heart and soul of the artist?

[Frog]

I think a paying client is a paying client - they call the shots and you have to do as you're told, if not why should they pay you?

I'm sure many great artists have felt the way you do and god knows I often have, many times I've disagreed with clients ideas but I just bite my lip and get on with it. By all means make suggestions but if the client doesn't like them save your emotions for your own private work. That's capitalism

Being paid to create art is a privilege in itself, there are a few drawbacks but at least you're not arguing over what the best filing system is or working in a bank!

[eyewoo]

Agreed... a client is a client. There are few artists who are commissioned for their vision. Most are commissioned for their skill. I expect your client either had a very specific purpose in mind for the piece or simply wanted to maintain design rights... wanted to point to it with his friends and family and say, metaphorically, "I did that."

[el scoono]

i received some great advice about this type of thing while i was in school. if a client is really set on his/her idea, you're obliged to head in that direction, even if you think your concept is much better. what you can do however, is paint two versions (yours and the client's). in other words, actually show the client how much better your idea is. now, this takes extra time and effort but if you're really passionate about your idea it might be something to consider. anyway, i have found this to be a very effective way to demonstrate my point to a stubborn client or art director. if the client still doesn't like your version, you can actually put both versions in your portfolio. when looking for work you can say "here's what the client had in mind, and here's my version." this way you still end up with a portfolio piece.

however, if you're really short on time, all this goes out the window. you just have to finish the job, take your money, and run.

[Christian +]

**A client is a client**, doesn't really mean anything, I would say A Client ... is Money and if you were rich, maybe you are, then the client is nothing and you can tell him that if your not gonna do it your way you'll not do it at all. That's a risk you can pay the price for.
He'll fell you are so confident about it that he'll say "what an artist.....he's really great" and will agree with you unless of course his specifications are very crucial).
You can try that sometimes when it is not a big deal.
I've tried it, it works.

[pixelPimp]

I usually try to get clients idea on paper first, when and if that task is finished and I am just mildy excited about the result, like in your instance, I may feel like taking it to another level. However, this has to be done in my time and before the deadline.

When the client comes to inspect the comission work I will allways show my version (if I have one of course) first. If the feedback and eventual result is positive you win and client is happy. If however, he is a total dumb fuck and is dead set on you sticking to his empulses.. well, go to plan B and show them the original work. But I am seldom able to convince clients to let me 'fly' with the idea before hand.

[BlackPool]

Well it sounds to me like your client had a specific idea of what he wanted and just needed your technical abilities to make it real. It seems to me that that is the majority of the type of work people pay us for. I don't know about anyone else but when I do stuff like this, I don't even feel right about calling it mine. If it is a painting, I won't even sign it.

[dontfallin]

whats is it that he wants?

[Lunatique]

This is what he wants:

"Hi there,

This is what I would like as a commission.

A very beautiful woman is diving in deep water. She is wearing a very tight diving suit that covers her from her upper neck and down to her feet. The diving suit was custom made for her to show off every curve of her body.

She is ready to come up to the surface when she finds a gold staff in the sandy bottom. She pulls on the staff, which slides out of the sandy bottom easily. She finds that it is a golden trident fit for a queen. At that moment, she feels a huge warmth overcome her body. She tries to let go of the trident but it will not let her.

The transformation into a rubber/latex mermaid begins. She looks at her legs and sees them and the rubber fusing together. Soon she has a mermaid's tail and a fin to propel herself through the water.
Now its her hands turn, her fingers have become elongated and have webbing inbetween each finger.
Her ears have become long and pointed like an elf's ears.
Her hips also have a fin on each side of her body.
She finds that her suit has bonded to her skin making itself a living part of her body.

This is what we see. We see her looking at her new body in amazement as he holds the trident in one webbed hand and her diving fins and mask are floating to the bottom.

Here is a color that would look good on her. I have downloaded it.
Some more downloads will come."

(That color he mentioned is a bright purple. He sent me a pic of catwoman.)

He sent me some examples of works he commissioned from artists he claims to be "incredibly talented"(following his similar ideas of women being transformed to various creatures). I won't post them here, but let's just say they would get some pretty severe C&C here at sijun.

So, anyways, this was my idea, which I proposed and got turned down:

A heart-achingly beautiful girl in a white dress has thrown herself off of a cliff. She has lost her will to live, after losing her lover in a boating accident. Unable to bear the pain, she jumped into the ocean to become one with him.

As she falls further into the deep, blue ocean, and was about to cross the boundary that seperates the living and the netherworld, she felt her legs tingle and her lungs nourished by oxygen-filled water.

What we see in the image is this:

She is descending slowly down the deep, dark ocean, and her eyes are slightly open. Her expression is melancholic, yet slightly surprised. The hem of her dress has wrapped itself around her legs in such a way that it resembles the tail of a fish.

I don't want to blatantly paint a mermaid, but merely suggest it. It's supposed to be ambiguous and mysterious.

Basically, Poseidon, the ocean God was moved by her grief and love, and decided to take pity on her and transformed her and her lover so they can be together forever under the sea.

The core of the idea is to express her broken heart, and the fact the strength of her love managed to transform her.

So, anyway, he still wants his diver with the trident turned into a mermaid with the diving suit fused to her skin(elongated and webbed fingers intact).

I will paint my own idea for myself. It's his loss.

[ February 24, 2002: Message edited by: Lunatique ]

[wayfinder]

!?!?

this is so pointless??

if he won't take your advice just do what he wants man

it's his jerk-off fantasy, not yours

[c]

jerk off fantasy, gahahaha

yea just do what he wants and don't worry about it to much. you can always paint your own thing whenever you want.

[klaivu]

The man wants cheese, so give him cheese.

Your idea is imho far better and meaningful.

[Arc][Pello]

OMG!!!!!! this guy must have way too much time on his hands, i can only guess what he does with it.
but your idea sounds so much more interesting, perhaps you could have the actual shipwreck in the background, that way the whole story seems complete.
i really feel sorry for you, but dont let this guy bring you down to his level.

[Lunatique]

The shipwreck idea is cool, but it might confuse the viewer. They might think she's drowning because of the wreck?

I'm already working on my version.

[Fabrys]

Wow ! Lunatic, with your 1st post, you just gave me the reason why I don't want to move in USA. That is also the reason why Travist Charrest (Wildcats/X-Men) is working with a french publisher, now.
You don't have enough space to create your own touch.
I working on a Fantasy comic book, as a colorist. The only demands were : "the cloak of this character is purple", "on this page, it's starting raining", etc. But, I can suggest the atmosphere and its color, I can choose the color of any suit. At 95%, the cartonnist and the writter agree. They let me give my touch and participe to the project as a real artist, not an employee.

As far as I could, I would refuse any job which locks my creativity (I hope that I will be able to do that all my life... nothing is less sure).

[BooMSticK]

luna,

If the dude got money to pay, then do his version - take a vacation and do a picture that makes you happy!
If not, then suggest him your idea. If he doesn't like it tell him to p*** off. Do the painting anyways, if you are inspired and can afford the time spent. He might even like the outcome... And then you'll both be happy!
Plain and simple, this is what I would do...
,Boom

[ February 26, 2002: Message edited by: BooMSticK ]

[Lunatique]

I finished his version, and he loves it.

Now, I need to find time to paint my version. I already have unfinished paintings backed up for months.... Grrrr.....

[Arc][Pello]

Ah man you have to post the finished result, i cant even begin to imagine its bizzarness!

[Lunatique]

Oh man.... you asked for it. Don't flinch now. ...

Ouch. Here we go. PLEASE remember, this is NOT representitive of my work. I just tried to finish it as quickly as possible, without handing over a painting that would embarrass me too much. I would never paint an idea like this in the first place.

[PixHortHiT]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...

[Arc][Pello]

that guy has issues........

[Bomu]

Did I miss something?- WHY does he want this?! From the description I thought he wanted a few comic book pages! btw, how long did it take Lunatique?

Commissions:
---
The ideas in this thread are very interesting and useful to me, since I'm doing the same thing constantly - I never like the clients briefs 100% and almost ALWAYS suggest alternatives. At least now I can take the points mentioned here into consideration.

I know what it's like if you think your idea is far supirior and know you wont be happy working on theirs. Even if you do bite the bullet, you'll think their request will downgrade the rest of your portfolio! It sucks!! el scoono's two version idea is definetly worth doing. That's what I did a few weeks ago and I feel better, even if my idea still gets shunned.

Clients really don't know what they're talking about half the time so I've found as long as you can prove you're the 'know it all artist' (without sounding stuck up), persuading them to go with your vision is a lot easier. You just have to clearly explain your ideas and use some extra illustrations to support your arguement.. However I argued with a client about 2 other alternative ideas and think I might have blown it- I havn't had a reply in 2 weeks! I'll email them again since they may just be busy. We'll see...

[Jucas]

Well I am looking forward toward your piece loony, but I gotta hand it to you. That piece that you did for him is absolutely terrible! Lol.

But then again a check is a check. If I were making any money of my art I'd be more than happy to put down and idea for someone else, even if it goes against my better judgement.

Well... later.

[ March 02, 2002: Message edited by: Jucas ]

[Lunatique]

Bomu- took me about 2 full working days(if you add the hours spent on it).

Jucas- Heheh, I know. Why do you think it's not on my website? I wasn't even going to post it on sijun, but Arc][Pello asked, so I did.

I know. It sucks donkey sausage. *hangs head in shame*