[traveller]

ohhhhhh! I can't believe my attempt at a digital image looks SOOOOOOO TERRIBLE!!! I'm a fine artist. Have been painting all my life so finally dive into this forum and tah-dah! Lots of digital art! I think "this should be easy - afterall, I have *some* painting ability" Well as you can see, I was WRONG! There I said it! uggggh!



Somebody HELP me! Please direct me to a tutorial or offer a suggestion. Just HOW do you create a painting digitally?

-willing to embarrass myself! thankyou

[Mr Crowley]

have you ever used gouache?
digital painting has not much to do with oil technique....maybe that's the reason you cant feel the digital brush....?

[surferboi]

maybe you should try and see if you can find a demo of painter it mimics natural mediums better then photoshop imho

[traveller]

I've never really painted well with goache or acrylics. I haven't really gelled with the techniques required to do good work in those mediums. Oils have pretty much been a standard for me for over 10 years.

I attempted this painting from an oil painter's point of view - as you've just highlighted. So I don't really have a sense of the concept of "brush" that you raised. I guess that's how you photoshop users do it.

You simulate gouche painting right? Thus being able to "feel" the brushwork?

If so, I think that you're right. Photoshop doesn't seem to be the medium for me.

Does anyone know where i can get a version of Painter? demo of course? Thank you.

"really..i *can* paint...though you'd never guess." Hope that gave you a good laugh

[CyberArtist]

What'd you use to paint the digital image? Wacom tablets generally come with a copy of Painter Classic.

[Lunatique]

You absolutely can get a painterly look with photoshop. It all depends on how you use it.

First of all, do you even have a Wacom tablet? If you don't, that just might be the problem.

If you just look at all the works being produced here, you can easily see what photoshop is capable of.

switching to Painter will not make things any easier if you don't have a tablet.

Photoshop comes with a good range of natural brushes, and you can get some pretty good painterly effects with them. The key is how you lay down the strokes and how you blend them.

[eyewoo]

I wouldn't give up on Photoshop all together... Like any tool it takes practice. Painter's a good program too, but I prefer Photoshop. Photoshop doesn't try to emulate tradition, it is what it is, a very good program for using pixels to create art. I was also an oil paint, painter, but I haven't picked up a brush in over 10 years... Photoshop all the way. Here's a couple of examples...





Give Photoshop a chance....

[ceenda]

If that's from the painting of "Lady Agnew", by John Singer Sargent, then it's in the National Gallery just down the street!

[ February 15, 2002: Message edited by: ceenda ]

[gArGOyLe^]

Are you using your mouse to draw? cuz that is really hard.. almost impossible

[jr]

craig mullin's has a nice diddy on sargent's painting technique on his site, www.goodbrush.com , alof of his quick work looks like it was inspired by sargents watercolors. anywho, you have to block in the shapes with large brush strokes, summerize the colors, and then focus it. and work with the forms.

[razzak]

im not the best artist here, but what i reckon it boils down to is start with big brushes and get successively smaller. this certainly has been my solution to every problem i had so far. dont go for tuts, fing your own way and explore. btw. thats the pic im working on right now. done in photoshop and painter

[balistic]

You might also consider the Corel Draw bundle that comes with Photopaint. You can do some decent natural media simulation with it, though not to the same degree as Painter:



It'll let you assign bleed and color retention to your stylus so that you can mix colors on the canvas in a way that's similar to oils.

The only downside of Photopaint is that you can't get it outside the Draw bundle anymore, which makes it fairly pricey if you don't own something that qualifies for a competitive upgrade.

[ February 15, 2002: Message edited by: balistic ]

[Kaete]

Well, don't get discouraged.

Really did you expect it to be totally easy? Anytime I start using a new medium, I know I'm in for a long time of just learning all it's little quirks. Never expect your first to be perfect.

Remember the very *first* oil painting you ever painted? Did it come out looking like the Sargent copy, or was it a muddy mess?

Patience is the key. Just have fun messing around and learning the program. Remember the old saying "you have to make 100 bad paintings to get 1 great one."

Just think of it this way --- you can mess around as much as you want, and you won't be wasting expensive paint or canvas! Don't like the picture you've made? Delete it! No harm, no foul.

No, go play.

[Sedone]

Have tablet, will paint. You do have a tablet, don't you?

Like a lot of guys have already said, you've gotta hang in there and pay your dues. The first few paintings will undoubtedly look like crap, because you're not used to the medium. There's no big secret we're hiding from you. Just keep experimenting.

We're behind you all the way!!!!!!

[Kaete]

For all the naysayers, it's not that impossible to paint without a tablet. Using a mouse just makes it a little more time consuming.

I mean, look at this:



I did this picture with a mouse. Of course, it's not perfect. But that's because of my mediocre skill level, not because I was using a mouse.

[traveller]

OMIGOD! Now this is going to sound worse and you'll all have a really good laugh because yah! I *did* use a tablet! It's an old one from 1995 but from the BEAUTIFUL examples I see....it's obviously NOT what you use.


ha! Thank you so much for the inpiration. No. I didn't think it would be easy but hey!
You folks made it look SO EASY!

I thought! "how hard could this be!"


Thank you from a VERY humble artist! If I can even "call" myself that!

[balistic]

Using a mouse isn't so much a hinderance to good art as it is a great way to destroy your wrist. When my fingers started going numb, I switched over to tablet painting pretty quick.

[traveller]

FleaBrain - 'well...you just threw my photoshop vs. painter theory out the window. My mouth opens. I am astounded. Am heading over to your tutorials. There is a wonderful sensitivity to your work. WOW!

ceenda - You actually live near the original painting??? Lady Agnew? YES! It's her! What does she look like in real life? You lucky person you. Which museum is this?

jr - Thanks. I just went to Craig's site and realize that there IS light at the 'end' of the tunnel! I've been using his Sargent tutorial for my oil paintings but didn't have any success...as you can tell when I transfered the same suggestions over digitally. I'll go try again! ha!

razzak - The LIGHT goes on! I UNDERSTAND now how you folks are doing it! Dark areas to light areas! Allow the light to define the image! Your picture says a million words! THanks!

Balistic - Thanks for brush work! Looks like you had fun! Nice effects, I;ll go take a look at the corel product! Your samples picture looked even better than MINE! hahaha!

Kaete & Sedone - Got my tablet, my ego intact and heading to your portfolios! Thanks! Kaete....your image done with a MOUSE puts me to shame! I love the spirit of that piece! heh...made my mouth drop.

okay..... the lesson learned today? A wacom table a digital painter does not make! and umm....patience makes perfect....and uhhh....there are lots of GREAT people in this forum.

[CyberArtist]

In the mouse vs. tablet thing ... just thought I'd bring up this little fact again.

All of Mullin's digital work is pure mouse. He doesn't like tablets.

[Ben Barker]

Umm, as far as I know Spooge's stuff is all with a tablet now. The no-tablet stuff is the older stuff like 500 nations.
[edit]
http://www.goodbrush.com/misc/personal/sd_hideout.htm

It's sitting on the desk. I'm not a stalker or anything, but I needed to be sure. If it was all mouse I would shit my pants.
Oh and spooge, if you're reading this, you should really take care of that huge beehive in the ceiling of your studio.

[ February 15, 2002: Message edited by: Ben Barker ]

[balistic]

"I have an old wacom artz tablet. I think it is from 96-97. I did not use it until about 99, so it does not have that many miles.
It has an ADB connection, a dead mac-only thing. The USB converter works OK, but not when I go to the new OS. That is if i don't go PC, which I like better anyway.

I will have to buy a new one with my next computer. The USB forces the issue." - S. Demon

[ February 15, 2002: Message edited by: balistic ]

[Kaete]

quote

Quote:

Using a mouse isn't so much a hinderance to good art as it is a great way to destroy your wrist. When my fingers started going numb, I switched over to tablet painting pretty quick.

Man, is it ever! I eventually learned how to draw with either hand, simply so I could switch whenever one started to hurt.

That's actually why I've decided to bite the bullet and buy a wacom. Hopefully by next paycheck I'll be able to afford one.

[Anthony]

I didn't read the replies, but I'd ask something simple: How much time did the oil take Sargent, how much time did the oil take you, and how much time did you spend on the digital image? Cause I'd wager that it was hours and hours, hours and hours, and then maybe an hour or less for the digital. Maybe not in thsi case, but people have a tendency to expect the art to be fast in digital form. Put the time and patience and planning into it, just like in traditional media.

[traveller]

Anthony - actually, i spent 25 hours dishing out version after version in digital format. The problem wasn't the hours but the lack of understanding of painting technique. The version you see here isn't much better from my first digital portraits simply because the approach was all wrong. The mindset was going in opposite directions so each image reflected that. (...and there were some really bad ones!)

This last version is my 'exasperated' copy. It's the one that says "this is harder than I thought!" This version is as humiliating as the arrogant 'arTISTE' who previously thought digital work was "easy". Apparently NOT!

But now that i understand how to approach an image....i look forward to better things
heh...at least 'recognizable' things.

"eating humble pie"

[Kaete]

Hey, we all have to eat humble pie from time to time. And I think in the long run it makes us better artists!

*Puts some sugar on traveller's humble pie*

[Lunatique]

Hehe. I like this traveller person.

[ceenda]

Traveller: The painting is currently in the National Gallery of Scotland, in Edinburgh. I work not far from there. The painting is HUGE, I always thought it was smaller. There's also some other nice stuff in there.

[Jin]

Hi,

There are currently two Painter 6's for MAC and one Painter 6 for PC at e-Bay. The Mac software is priced at $69.99 and the PC at $50.00. This is a great price as long as you're careful to get the full package, legal and registerable so you'll be eligible for upgrade pricing later on.

Painter 7 is the most recent version so that's not too far behind and Painter 6 has loads capability. It's a great version to try out and I'd recommend doing that if you can. I think you'll find it an experience you won't want to give up and having Photoshop and Painter is the best of all worlds since each program has strengths the other hasn't.

I didn't follow the links to read the details but you can check them out at:
http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?MfcISAPICommand=GetResult&ht=1&SortProperty=MetaEndSort&query=Painter+6

Painter is by far the best program for painting, though Photoshop fans will show you that a talented and skilled artist can work wonders with Photoshop's relatively limited supply of brushes (relative to Painter).

Painter is designed for artists and comes installed with hundreds of brushes that simulate traditional drawing and painting tools, more on the CDs, and the artist can design his/her own custom brushes for any conceivable use.

One Painter artist, for instance, designed and recently made available for the Painter community a set of "Fine Art" brushes that simulate his own traditional acrylic and oil brushes. The set includes 36 brush variants: flats, rounds, filberts, fans, and blending brushes for both oils and acrylics, and a sketch pen to complete the set.. or what Painter calls a Brush Library. Since Painter 7 brushes are .XML files, it's easy to share custom brushes across platforms and since Painter 7's release in August 2001, the explosion of artist-designed brushes has been very exciting, to put it mildly.

Best wishes making your decision. You'll have a lot of support from other artists whichever program you decide on.

[traveller]

Thanks for the info. I just got Painter 4.0 from my friend and am throwing myself in. I've made something recognizable in 15 minutes using all your suggested techniques!



THANKYOU everybody. Looks like I"m on my waaayyy!!!

[BooMSticK]

jin - would you have a link to a place where that brush set you mention can be obtained? Sounds mighty interesting
,boom