[Frog]

Hi all,

I've stumbled accross this BB recently and am very impressed with the talent and expertise that so many people here obviously have. I have a newbie-ish question to ask regarding using Painter, something that I find very frustrating. I can normally get my head round new software pretty fast but Painter just eludes me, I've been using Photoshop since version 2.5 and maybe that's part of the problem - I'm too used to Photoshop's way of doing things and so Painter ends up annoying me.

The reason that I want to persevere with Painter is that the one thing I've noticed with it is that it handles the tablet a lot better than Photoshop; I usually resort to Illustrator at the moment when using the Wacom for line work because PS is just awful. I like the lines I can paint in Illustrator and the fact that they can still be edited as vectors afterwards, but I also want to use Painter to sketch and paint.

I have Painter Classic, which came free with a scanner and all my attempts so far have been done with this. I have a million problems with the interface such as the apparent lack of PS style layers (I would like one layer for lines, another for colour etc) and the fact that I don't seem to be able to save my brush edits (ie if I swith from the pencil to the eraser and back again I have to re-edit all the settings because its gone back to the default pencil settings). I realise that these are very basic issues but I've read the useless PDF manual that came with the software and it's no help at all.

Is my problem that Painter Classic is too crippled, ie would I be better off with Painter 7? Or is it just that Painter is too different from PS and I just have to get used to it? Are there any tutorials that just deal with the interface rather than techniques?

To give a little background, although I am new to this board and to Painter, I am a professional digital illustrator with over 20 years of drawing experience, I've attached a sample image so that you can see where I'm at.



Many thanks for your time.

[ February 11, 2002: Message edited by: Frog ]

[ceenda]

Hi there, welcome to the forums! Great artwork there, and I notice you're from the UK too. Great website too.

Well, I used to use Photoshop for most of my work but then switched to using Painter Classic for pretty much the reasons you already specified, and nearly all the latest work on my portfolio was done using Painter.

Unfortunately, Painter Classic was never made with Layers in mind. There is a plug-in or something, but it was so frustrating to use that it really wasn't worthwhile trying to figure out how it worked.

Painter 6 or 7 is your best bet. Though if you get Painter 6, make sure you download the 6.1 patch from Corel, as the layers don't pick up the underlying colour, hence a 'halo' effect around all the brushes.

You know that your copy of Painter Classic entitles you to the upgrade version of Painter? I'd recommend http://www.jungle.com though it might be worth contacting Corel first to check that serial number of the OEM version of Painter you have is valid.

Anyway, look forward to viewing more of your work.

[Jin]

Hi,

Unfortunately, Painter Classic doesn't qualify for upgrade pricing to
Painter 7 (the only version currently being sold by Corel/Procreate).

The versions that are eligible for upgrade pricing are: Painter 4, 5,
5.5, and 6.

If you're prepared to pay full price for the software, I'd recommend
buying Painter 7 as it has far more capability than even Painter 6, with
the 6.1 patch installed. For instance, Painter 7, with the Painter 7
Update installed, introduces two new brush types: Liquid Ink and
Tinting. It also introduces multiple Water Color Layers and multiple
Liquid Ink Layers and a couple of new Effects options: Distress, and
Serigraphy Effect. A couple of example images can be seen at the
following URLs:

Serigraphy Effect applied to a Kaleidoscope image based on Water Color
brush strokes: http://www.pixelalley.com/2001-2002-Gallery/1-1-02-wc-kaleido-serigraphy.html

Liquid Ink painted over Impasto brush strokes , demo only: http://www.pixelalley.com/Painter-Module1-Class1/10-10-01-thick-wet-paint-colored.jpg

Painter 6 introduced Layers, the Preserve Transparency option for
Layers, and the Impasto brushes (something like 32 variants). With the
6.1 patch, also came the Woodcut Effect, the Pick Up Underlying Color
option for Layers, and some bug fixes.

Painter 5 (and I assume since I don't have it installed, Painter 5.5)
had multiple Floaters and introduced multiple Transparent Layers on
which brushes had to be set to Plugin Method and Transparent Layer Brush
Subcategory.

Painter 4 and earlier had multiple Floaters, no Transparent Layers.

In all of the versions listed above, we can create new Brush Variants
and organize them in Brush Categories and Brush Libraries. Only in later
versions were the brush settings retained automatically until you
changed them or closed the program. If I recall correctly, with Painter
7 the brush settings are retained even after closing and reopening
Painter, though they are still temporary until the brush settings are
saved permanently as a custom brush variant.

There is a great deal more to say about full versions of Painter, too
much to write here.. or in several volumes.

Painter Classic is an appetizer to get people interested in full
Painter versions. It was based on Painter 5, but doesn't begin to
contain what even Painter 5 offers, and Painter 5 is now three versions
back (Painter 5.5, 6, and 7 have been released since Painter 5 was
released).

To take a look at the Painter 7 Interface, here are some news releases
published around the time Painter 7 was released in August, 2001:

Painter 7 in Pictures (this one gives the best overview) http://www.computerarts.co.uk/news/painter7/

CreativePro Site: http://www.creativepro.com/story/review/14039.html

Please visit my site to see a large number of Painter tuturials for
Painter 5, 5.5, 6, and 7 along with many demo images and other work done
in Painter. If you click the links on the right side of the PixelAlley
Section Links Page, you'll be able to read a lot of Painter 7
information and download Painter Developer John Derry's Visual Guides
for Painter 7 Water Colors, Liquid Ink, and Keystroke Shortcuts. They'll
give you a nice overview of these brushes, which are only a couple of
the many, many brushes available in Painter 7. There are literally
hundreds of brush variants in the default Painter 7 Brush Library, more
default Brush Libraries for Painter 4, 5, and 6, and many more on
Painter 7 CD 2, to say nothing of those found on third party Painter
book CDs and on the Web. With Painter 7, the brushes are .XML files
which means they are cross platform compatible so we're having a
wonderful time creating custom brush variants and sharing them. My
collection is about to burst my computer (please don't let that
happen!).

Also please visit the Painter Forum at In Depth Discussions where you'll
find a wealth of Painter information in the older message threads...
demonstrations, lots of art, tutorials, painting challenges of all kinds
(any member can introduce a challenge and they're open ended.. no time
limit), and shared custom brush files available for download in both the
Painter Forum and in the Forum Freebies forum. Both URLs are below my
signature.

Though I'm a co-moderator for the Painter Forum, I'll be gone for a
couple of weeks. Paulo is another of the three co-moderators and you can
ask him, or any of the other members, questions about Painter and the
Painter Forum.

Hope to see you there when I return. In the meantime, best wishes for
making your decision about which version to buy. Whichever version it
is, there's lots of help available.

[ February 11, 2002: Message edited by: Jin ]

[Frog]

Thank you both for your helpful and informative answers, looks like I need Painter 7 then!

Cheers for the welcome ceenda BTW, I checked your site and there is some nice stuff here - I particularly like your skies. Nice thing about coming to a community like this is that its very inspiring to see what others are doing.

Jin, very detailed answer, thanks. I've had a quick look at your site but it obviously has such depth that I'm going to need to spend a little time there.

I guess that Painter is a powerful program in its own right and obviously that amount of depth and control requires a little time to learn. Thanks for your replies.