[klash.jr]

Some people say the same information about color tones as if they were talking about values. are they the same?

For example: an apple maybe red in color but in light the apple may have many different color tones! or is it values? ack i'm confuse

[Ian Jones]

values = tones

Often you'll see someone write "tonal values"

Here's a definiton I picked up somewhere...

"Value
A synomym for lightness. The estimated lightness of a surface colour, as expressed numerically in the Munsell system. A series of greys is imagined to run along a vertical axis with perfect black (value 0) at the bottom and a perfect white (value 1) at the top. The greys lighten - or increase in value - in steps that are subjectively equal. Colours of the same lightness as a given grey are assigned the same value and arranged on the same horizontal level."

Well that is a bit of a strange way to put it.. but eh..

"Lightness
The amount of grey in a colour - its lightness value as compared with black, and its darkest value as compared to white. Lightness is also the attribute of a visual sensation by which an area is judged to transmit or reflect diffusely a greater or samller proportion of the light falling on it. Thus, although the brightness of a powder-blue sweater may decrease greatly when its wearer walks from sunshine into shadow, it will still look light blue (since an observer judges it with respect to its surroundings, which are all less bright in the shadow) so the lightness has remained unchanged. Our recognition of objects in widely changing lighting largely depends on the near constancy of lightness."

and another long winded explanation... lol

Hope that helps.

[Pat]

I when mixing colors, I was taught:

Tint: Color mixed with white.
Shade: Color mixed with black
Tone: Color mixed with neutral gray.

-Pat

[Ian Jones]

Pat: I agree with the tint and shade.. but the tone.. hmmm thats a confusing way to use it, considering it is mostly used to describe the range between pure black a pure white, and the relationships of these with colours. Ultramarine Blue for example has a dark value, if you painted an Ultramarine Blue blue dot next to a sunshine yellow (light value) dot, then went image>mode>greyscale (important do not image>adjust>desaturate you will get incorrect values!).. you will get the colour values displayed in black and white. The blue will go dark grey and the yellow will be very light grey, therefore Ultramarine Blue has a dark value compared to Sunshine yellow which has a light value.

Capiche?

[ January 03, 2002: Message edited by: Ian Jones ]

[Jason Manley]

hi all...

here ya go again...though more info is found in the color theory thread on this forum.

color is seperable into three properties..value (light to dark)...temperature (warm to cool)...and intensity (saturation, brightness not whiteness,)

the person using that terminology is simply misunderstanding the meanings of his/her words. they need to be more specific if they do not want to confuse us.

there will be variations in value, temperature and intensity in any given shape of light or shadow. look closely. once you can see the different properties that i mention above then you can break down what you are seeing into usable concepts for painting.

keep in mind that all color is relative...i.e. some blues may be warm when put next to other blues or some reds may be cool when put next to some oranges...some greens may be warmer than some reds...it just depends on the colors near the color in question.

I hope this helps.

jason

[sliver fish]

just posted to say great advice Jason.. cant wait to see a website from you..

[Dr. Bang]

Jason Manley, i'm really sorry for being stupid but can you please explain the value, and intensity in picture maybe? I kinda know what they mean but I really can't describle them in word, plus, a picture is worth a thousand words.

Thanks

p.s: I saved up all of your color theory post

[Dr. Bang]

here's what i think they means, please correct me.........i'm a very confused young boy.

[Ian Jones]

Yeah thats looks right to me. I have a little bit of doubt about the temperature one though... thats the only area of colour that was never really explained to me very well. Jason, over to you.

[LoTekK]

as far as i understand temperature, dr bang's seems correct, in a sense... the colors on the sphere go from blue (cool) to red (warm), which is sort of a simplified explanation of temperature... however, as has been pointed out in the color theory thread, in the right situations, reds can be cooler than blues, grrens can be warmer than yellows, etc... i myself can't offer anymore in terms of explanations, however, as, like ian, color temperature kind of eludes me when it comes to the deeper intricacies...

[SporQ]

here is how i understood it. value is a light to dark measurement. temp is warm or cool and ties in with hue, and intensity is the amount of saturation,,,

[spooge demon]

temperature is a different way to think of hue, but I think it is a good addition. I find myself analyzing and mixing based on relative temperature a lot.

[Ian Jones]

Spooge...

You say RELATIVE temperature... I think thats an important factor in what ppl have been saying, and as far as I can tell it is key in our understanding about colour temperature. ie the temperature status in relation to its environment. I'm intriuged with the warm / cool theory's about colour... and it's something I am only just discovering. Do you have any advice on what to experiment with? what additional factors we should be interested in? I want to learn more about colour temperature. Any advice?

[Jason Manley]

sporqs diagram illustrates the point well...when looking at temperature it is important to see the subtle changes as well...notice in the center of his temp box there is a shift in reds before it turns to blue...the differences in those reds are mostly temperature differences as the values are so close.

its simply a way of looking at color and thinking about color...it is a way of describing differences in the relative colors you see.

if you can describe it...if you can break it down into its basic properties then you can understand it. if you can understand it you can use it.

jason

PS...in that above sporq diagram..are the grays warm or cool in comparison to the colors in the boxes next to them? thats the kind of questions you have to ask.

[ January 05, 2002: Message edited by: Jason Manley ]

[SporQ]

i get the feeling that the grays are warm just cause the blue makes it so. i might just be imagining that though cause i want them to be warm to contrast the blue. the thing is i can also see them being cool cause they have no hue and the blue could be making them cool. i dont really know, hehe. guess thats one more thing i have to learn