[Justa Fledgling]

First of all i would like all of you that are employed in the art field to tell what your job is, what you do, and what you get paid. And if you have an art degree state what it is. Im trying to figure out what the hell i can do with art. I love drawing and want to work doing what i love. Problem is i dont know whats out there and ill be damned if im gonna waste 2 years of my life getting a degree in graphic design to end up unemployed, working at Burger King, or drawing smiley cookie cartoons for girlscouts. I want something similar to, if not, concept art and character design for video games or somethin. Some sort of fantasy art, thats my true passion. Im in my first year of college right now and i better get some direction fast. As for the "hell kind of clique" comment, every time i read a damn post its a college student who planned to take computer science but decided it was crap. I join the ranks but are we all the same? A bunch of has been computer gamers with a nack for art and twisted minds? Thought we would design and make games until we found out what it was really all about? As a side note if any of you art ppl have Yahoo and would be willing to spare some time to ease my mind id like to chat with you. Say so if you are available.

[Dekard]

Welp, I'll give you my take on it. I've been in the IT field for 6 years and make a comfortable living and am 29 yrs old.

I love to draw and have not developed my talents as I should of.

I just enrolled in college for 2 years to get my Assoc Degree in Computer Animation, then I'll go 2 more after that for my bachelors in Computer Animation.

In my case, I'd rather spend 2 years in school doing something I enjoy and possibly getting a job in the art field, then spend the same time in the IT Field wishing I was doing something I enjoyed.

just my .02 cents. I know alot of people will think I'm crazy.

[Gort]

Hey ho - here we go

I am 36 and hold a BFA in Illustration. I have been in the internet industry since 1996 as a interactive/graphic designer and digital illustrator. In spite of all of the DotBombs, I still busy and chugging along. I also do freelance illustration. I make a very good living - above what I consider to be the average in my field.

Initially I started out doing storyboards and production illustration for the commercial industry here in Atlanta; the going was slow and didn't return much (not too much work in these parts). I decided to go into the web industry, because the only way to make a real name for myself in film/commercial was to move to S. California - something I had no desire to do. Luckily the WWW was born, and I jumped as it passed.

What you do with your life is based completely on your motivations. I know a handful of talented people, but they work at Kinko's or "Signs R Us" - why? Because they are not motivated to do anything with themselves; some of them actually think the phone will ring any day now. Everything has a price, and success has a big one - hard work and determination. If you really want something bad enough, you can get it - but be prepared to work for it and deal with all the crap that comes with it.

[Kari Christensen]

I've worked in computer graphics for five years. I have to say amen to everyone. Do what you love- so you can enjoy the hard work. Don't plan on success right away, but you can be successful doing what you love- learn about the buisiness, promote yourself, get feedback, and don't be frustrated with bad clients.

[dr . bang]

god damn, these are REALLY good advice! I wish i had a printer so i could print these out and frame it up my room.

[MikeP]

i undertand that wages and salaries are kind of taboo subjects, but if some people would be so kind as not skirting this issue, it would be much appreciated...if you really don't want to say what you make, maybe you could say what is average for your field or venture a guess as to what is average for another field you might know about. sorry for bringing up this seemingly crass subject...my only defense is that basically there are a lot of struggling artists or young artists considering art as a profession who love the work itself, but also need to consider the utilitarian aspects of such a living. thanks

-mikeyp

[Justa Fledgling]

First of all thank you everyone for your replies. And secondly im gonna do this ass backwards...

Mike- You said it all on the Money question. **clap clap**

Dr Bang- Save em and waste some other fools ink.

Kari- Care to elaborate on what you do? And nice advice.

Tom- Thanks for the input but what exactly is it you do? Make logos? Draw page designs? And again Money wise, what do you make or what should you make in that field?

Dekard- Comfortable living? As in? And maybe im the only idiot who doesnt know but whats the IT field?

More crap for you to, or not to read... IM only 18 so i have a good deal of time to learn, experience, or whatever but the sooner i get a jump on it the better. I want to do art but i need to know what art jobs are available, whats involved in them, and if they provide enough money(basically first topic without getting so personnal). Another question arised in my mind recently. I attend Cal State San Bernardino, will a degree in art here mean anything or are non-art college degrees frowned upon in the art field?

Now some inspirational mumbo jumbo...

When your not training someone else is training to kick your ass.

Winners never quit, quitters never win.

Champions are made not born.

Its not the size of the dog in the fight its the size of the fight in the dog.

[Jason Manley]

hey...

just a few words...

Im a concept artist in the games industry...am working at Black Isle now..moving over to Troika Games next week.

first of, an art degree doesnt guarantee you a job or anything else...what guarantees you a future is that you have the willpower, persistance and ability to be as good of an artist as any in the industry. It is not the students that are your competition..tis the industry professionals..and you NEED to be that good. If you can get your skills set up in two years of hard work..the more power to you...but Ill be honest..it took me six years of education before I was really ready to work and even then it was a struggle. it is much easier now.

in the games field...a starting concept artist/2d guy with an education and a good strong portfolio will make anywhere from 38-55k...good concept artists in the games and film industry can hit fairly close to six figures if they have made a name for themselves or have really damn good work...the better you are and the more you can do..the more money you will make. Freelance can help to add to any of these numbers. Film often pays more than games (unless you work for mr lucas...then you get starwars cd cases for your christmas present instead of a bonus)

some companies offer stock and royalties once you are established...bonuses are also sometimes included. moving expenses and signing bonuses (2k-7k combined) are also often available if you ask..and if you are wanted as an artist.

do not do art for the money...do art for the art...only then will the money truly come..its a package deal that way. the other way around does NOT make art..that only makes production art and often that means poor quality production art with low art standards. the latter gets you less pay and less job opportunites on future projects. I can tell the difference...and so can the other artists around here. Basically you need to always strive for the highest levels of quality that your time allows...even higher if you can.

a non art degree is fine...if you have worked on your skills 30 hours a week at least...30 nice concentrated hours a week of studying and doing art for a few years will get you a decent portfolio if your heart is into it.

it doesnt matter where you go to school as long as there are some good students to study with and at least a couple teachers who can do things like what you do...so that they will be able to help you.

tis too early for you to worry about any of these things..really...you need to worry about your art and only your art...if you do that you will be fine...learning some business skills..people skills...presentation skills...gaining industry knowledge etc..are all worth while pursuits in this chase as well.

if you get your art education and the time is wasted..tis only your fault..buckle down and it will not be wasted.

best of luck....

jason

[Socar MYLES]

Well, I've said it before--no-one's ever asked me where I was educated, or even whether I was educated. The only thing that's going to get you a job in art is your portfolio. Sure, a degree looks nice on your resume, but if you can't draw, you won't make any money.

As for how good the money is...well, it really varies, depending on what market you're in. The ones I can tell you about from experience are:

The tabletop fantasy gaming industry (RPG books, DM screens, et cetera) - Ouch. Unless you're a big name, rarely more than $300/full-page colour illustration - $500-$700 for a cover. There are exceptions, of course, but for the most part...yikes. The fun factor is high, on the other hand.

Oil paintings on commission (I occasionally paint people's pets. You would probably get more for painting the actual person!) - $2,000 - $5,000/painting, depending on the size. You won't get this sort of commission unless you're willing to paint from photos, with no artistic liberties at all. It isn't fun.

Digital paintings on commission - Probably, the price depends on how well-known you are. I only charge $300. People are NOT willing to pay the same for a digital commission as they are for an oil painting.

Selling prints - Will cover your rent and bills. However, you do have to spend a lot of time and effort on advertising, or no-one will buy anything at all.

If you want to know how much you can make in art, though, you need to pick up some books. The Graphic Designer's Market, for one.... I believe there's one called The Artist's Market too, just for general artists. You can find guidelines in there about what you can look at charging for what sorts of work. And the longer your resume gets, the more people are willing to fork over.

[Dekard]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Justa Fledgling:
[QB]
Dekard- Comfortable living? As in? And maybe im the only idiot who doesnt know but whats the IT field?
[/b]

---

IT Field, Information Technology. I was a Local Area Network guy in the military so the PC Stuff stayed with me when I got out. I left the military and got a job outside making 40k per year at 25 years old, was nice, but I wasn't very happy I still doodled all the time and wanted to go to Art School.

Art makes me happy, hence the reason I'm going back to school to get my degree and hone my skillz.

[Justa Fledgling]

Jason and Socar- Absolutely f*ckn fantastic. Thanks so much for your replies. You both answered a lot of questions i was having.

Jason- As for the money thing, I LOVE art. Particularly fantasy/ sci-fi, and pencil but i must look out for my future. I also love kids and fully intend to raise a family when the time is right. I cant just decide to do art for a living and end up living in the streets, working at Jack in the box while im not drawing, or be unable to provide a comfortable life for my family. It seems i have some serious work ahead of me.

Socar- One thing that im wondering is how much time is involved in the arts you spoke of?

Dekard- Thanks for clearing those 2 things up for me. Good luck on your art career.

What sort of schooling would you guys recommend? I see my best options as graphic design and illustration. But if movies pay bank maybe some animation as well.

[Socar MYLES]

Time? Well, I draw about 16 hours/day, almost every day. But even if I weren't doing it for the money, I'd be drawing all day anyway. It's something I never get tired of.

More specifically.... It takes me 4-6 hours to do a simple full-page colour digital painting, 6-10 hours for a grayscale (don't know why, but grayscales are more challenging). Oil paintings can take anywhere from 4 days to a month, depending on size and technique. (Sometimes, I wait for one layer of paint to dry before I add another, so that I can get certain effects, and that takes time.)

When drawing for work and not for pleasure, one should always make sure and get the work done at LEAST a couple of days ahead of schedule, because the art director will often request revisions.

[Justa Fledgling]

Socar- Damn, quite a bit of time there. And the questions keep coming. What do you make annualy? How old are you and do you have a family? Is this work done out of your home? And another thing, do you sleep? Cuz if you spend 16 hours drawing and have time to reply to my curiosity within short time of my last post, im predicting very little nap nap time. Or fun time for that matter. But it was either Devinci<---??? or Einstein<---??? (damned complex names) who said sleep is a waste of time.

[Socar MYLES]

LOL...that's a lot of questions.

1. I don't know. Until this year, I had a day-job as well as my drawing--I have just gone into professional art full-time this summer. I'm not about to give you a monthly figure, because that's just crass...but I make enough to live very comfortably.

2. I'm 26.

3. I have a boyfriend...but no children...and no plans to have any, either.

4. Yes, I work from home. There ARE art jobs that you go to from nine to five every day, just like any other job, if it's stability you're looking for. But freelancing suits me just fine...my health doesn't let me go out very much, anyway.

5. I don't sleep MUCH...but I do sleep. As for fun time...well, I don't often go out...my social life is conducted almost entirely over the telephone. I talk and draw. It sounds like a lot of bullshit, but my drawing time IS my fun time...I may not be the most brilliant artist out there, but I really, REALLY love it.

[nova]

Ey..

I haven't had too much experience in art jobs, but i'll tell you what i can.

I was hired my junior year of high school to work for a graphic design company, and i worked there for.. urm.. i think a year and a half. I learned a lot while I was there, especially the whole idea of working on art for other people. I had to talk face to face with clients to get exactly what they wanted. The work itself wasn't half as difficult as dealing with clients. Even thought it was 'art on a computer' it wasn't much fun.. the company was golf-based, so i couldn't come up with anything out of the ordinary. It was all worth the experience though .. i now have a couple logos, business cards and yardage books in my portfolio. Later on, through an extraordinary stroke of luck and careful connection i was offered an internship as an artist at a game company, where i worked for free alongside working for the graphic design place. I had a REALLY busy summer working two jobs. I didn't get a vacation until the last week. When the summer ended and I was starting college, I talked to some important people and I started getting paid. So of couse i quit the graphic design job. I don't get paid much, but it's the experience that's really really worth it. Besides, it's kinda fun
I think what I'm trying to say is that it's completely worth it in the end if you're willing to work really hard and put up with ugly work for what you want to do.
I'm in art school right now studying to get a BA in digital art with a concentration in animation. 3D was really something i was never taught and comes harder to me than the 2d illustration and drawing thing. Depending on how work goes, I may or may not transfer to another school to study illustration or something like that. It all depends though.

As for 'cliques' .. that's an interesting question. The people i work with at the game company include a 3d animator who is a greek/roman mythology major[?] and previously a guitar player in an art-rock band, there's someone who worked at disney, a game designer who was some kind of lawyer.. yea. Most people there are very different from each other. Some guys are really talkative and have lots of stories to tell and a few are very quiet but geniuses at what they do. I don't think there's really a 'clique'.. just a bunch of people that are passionate at what they do, in his case making games.

My friends away from work are about as different from each other as you could imagine, but in one way or another our common interest is games, and a little art and some anime here and there. I can honestly say no one I'm friends with is a boring person.. they know what they like and enjoy themselves.

I'm only a naiive teenager, but i think in any case [in art or not] it all comes down to how passionate you are about doing what you love an how hard you're willing to work for it [working on developing your skills as well as getting a job].

So yea. I hope I helped a little bit

[ November 13, 2001: Message edited by: Nova ]

[Gort]

Hi again - I do just about everything here. I do logo and branding development. I do front end user interface development for web based, asp driven applications and basic websites; I am also responsible for the production of said sites - that involves either directing others or doing it myself - everything from the creative comping in Photoshop to cutouts and html template buildouts. In addition, I am also the illustrator here; I create supporting illustrations for our own site content and the sites we develop. I also handle all print collateral for our company; this involves eitehr doing it myself or directing external sources to achieve desired end results.

I love my work - I really do, but (OMG - a "but") my work isn't without headaches. These headaches come primarily from upper level marketing types that don't know the industry; they go out and promise stuff to clients in these absurd time frames - without consulting development ("Uh - you want what and how soon?? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Dumbasses.").

I actually enjoy doing more illustration - the creative stuff just makes me happier, but in all fairness, there is satisfaction in desgning a website and building it out to completion.

[JoeKool]

Ive done several things..work on video games, do post-production on music videos, work on film effects, work in a software house in the QA department (thats how I started out)..Some of my friends who work for game companies like EA make around 50-60k...though they have been around for 5 or 6 years or more. I started out at 28k doing QA, and got fairly good raises..though I think it sort of plateaus around 65-75k. But it also depends where you live (at least partly)..as I have some friends in Utah making 45 or 50k doing the same thing as friends in San Francisco making 75-80k..but it buys them the same amount of material things..
I have tried freelancing, (video production, websites..etc)..and for me..I have worked jobs that pay 30 an hour up to 75 an hour, as well as jobs that pay by the webpage (and whats involved in that page) or a flat rate per day..
If you find it difficult to get into the business..because of lack of experience, lack of jobs out there, whatever..Id suggest perhaps trying something in the same field, but a different postion..like a video game player/tester as part of the QA team..I know people at Blizzard and Activision who do that all day and after like 90 days, make around 20 or more an hour...plus they have tons of fun..and it gets you in the biz, meeting all the artists at a company..etc.
Also..unless you are dead-set on games, I think "Inferno" would be a great program to learn if you can get your hands on it sometime..doing post-production effects on tv shows, videos..etc..is not only fun and quite fascinating, but lucrative..the first time I saw it and toyed around with it..I was absolutely blown away.
Hope that helps a lil.

[Lunatique]

Ok, here's my story, and hope it helps you in some way.

I started out in comic books when I was 18. I stayed in comic books for about 8 years, doing cover paintings, interior art, occassional inking, and for about 4 years I worked on my own series(writing and art). While I was in comics I made shit money(meaning I could barely live off of it). I also did freelance work as character designer, RPG illustration, and since I'm also a musician, I sometimes wrote songs for record companies. And of course, all of that paid shit. It could have a lot to do with the fact I didn't do mainstream stuff.

Then, everything changed when I got into video games.

Immediately, my financial situation improved by leaps and bounds(I started out 3years ago around $36K, and this is with NO photoshop skills or ANY computer knowledge). In the begining, I was doing textures/concept, and then became art director. Now, I'm learning 3D so I can cover that area as well.

One thing you HAVE to keep in mind is that it's NOT easy to get a concept art job. You have to be REALLY good. If you aren't, they'll stick you in textures or maybe UI. And believe me, doing textures all day can get a bit boring. Concept is where all the fun is.

In the end, you should just do what makes you happy, and strive to be really good--not for money, not for showing off, but for that big smile it puts on your face. The rest will follow. A strong portfolio is THE deciding factor(taking for granted that you possess social skills and know how to type up a good resume/cover letter).

[GatoNegro13]

Well here I am a high school senior, sitting in graphic design class for the 4th year in a row, doing nothing but net surfing and helping the newbies. My so called "life" is looming ahead of me. but I am in a small town trap (800 people) with a grandmother who would rather put me in a plastic bubble than let me leave to have a life. Frankly I am very glad I ran across this post.... It was quite helpful, but quite scary at the same time. The competition out there (as I have heard and seen)is feirce. If im not good enough, then I WILL be stuck in Jack in the box! Sometimes I dont know whether it is foolish to chase my dreams, or to do somthing sensible, but miserable...like being a lawyer.

It's so funny when alot of people say "follow your dreams! You can do anything!" But when you tell them you want to be an artist, they become skeptical...what they mean by dreams is somthing much more mundane. I guess the long winded point about this is that I am glad I found this post.

[Justa Fledgling]

I am absolutely thrilled with the turnout of this post and i hope people will continue to share. Even if its the same as what someone else wrote. I see all these people who are in the games industry and thats what i adore. I could very well deal with 60k at age 24 like Ztiev. I feel a fall out plan may be in need here. Maybe major in something else that can keep me alive while pursuing and studying for a career in art. I often see you guys write "As good as your portfolio". If you guys made it in the business you obviously have what it takes and i would love to see some of your work. Maybe post where i can go to see your work. Basically i want to see how high the bar is set. Im a VERY fast learner but i need to know what im striving for. And now the individuals...


Socar- Seems you live an almost hermit lifestyle I respect that you can spend almost all your time with art but that doesnt really suit me. I could spend a lot but im a social creature. What kind of health problems? (if you dont want to say ill understand) But hell, i had testicular cancer. What a bitch that was.

Nova- Good luck with your career as well. But the peole you spoke of fit with my little group idea. Im trying to figure out if we keep this same mentality and if we got it the same way.(Hope that makes some sense, dont really think i need to fully explain here)

Tom Carter(AKA Jack Of All Trades)- You seem like a man who really knows the industry. Thanks for your reply and the info.

JoeKool- Great job on the financial aspect, thanks for that. Care to go in to a little more depth on what inferno is?

Lunatique- Got no appreciation for your comic skills huh? Bum deal. Glad to see you got ahead.

GatoNegro- Wouldnt let the fierce competition change your mind. If anything it makes me want to get better, not give up. "Winners never quit, quitters never win"

Ztiev- Good advice. Thanks for your info and story.

I cant believe there are people willing to read through all of this. Pat on the back for that. Have one more question for you guys in the gaming industry to answer. How did you get in? How did you start in the industry? Thanks again everyone for your replies.

[spooge demon]

Two thoughts-

1)You will not be doing what you are planning now in 10 years. That is not an excuse not to plan, but just be aware that serendipity is the rule of life. So plan on that.

2)Related to that, keep in mind that industries rise and fall. Animation in the mid 90's was red hot, graduates making 6 figures. Now it is a ghost town, all within 5 years. Games are hot at the moment. This might not be the case in the future.

The best bet is to be the most well rounded and solid artist you can be, so that it is not difficult to do something else, if needed. I consciously try to diversify, not only for security of income, but it makes you become a better artist. There is a lot of synergy in spreading out and you will remain interested and fresh, and work harder because of it.

[Socar MYLES]

I have my art online at http://www.gorblimey.com/ .

About the time thing.... Well, I'm not always quite as hermitly as I am at the moment. I have a VERY tight deadline hanging over my head at the moment, though--a prodigious amount of work needs to get done and done well in an extremely short timeframe. You can definitely be successful without spending even half as much time drawing as I do, so don't give up if you don't have all the time in the world.

No, I don't mind talking about my health--I don't have syphilis, or anything similarly embarrassing. I have a degenerative tissue condition affecting my lungs--it is similar to emphysema, but seems to have a genetic cause. Annoyingly enough, there is nothing that can be done about it, so if I DIDN'T draw all the time, I'd have a pretty empty life.

[Termite]

A question..
What was everyone's major here and what programs do you guys get to work with at your current jobs?

[FireFry]

Well, I was doing graphic design for almost a year making $13 FT. I know it's nothing big considering people have YEARS behind their belt. I'm 19, a year still holds some weight for me at the moment I haven't done that for a year now but I'm going for my BA to 'get my foot in the door' as some would say. I definitly believe with what you say Kari.

[Ztiev]

Hi Fledgling,

I started at 19, in a CG house of 9 people, at $6 an hour. I had very little skill or experience with the software they used, but I had a strong portfolio, and that's what will get you in the door. The most I ever made in CG was 40K, and there are alot of client headaches. People seem to be much more picky about anything 3D.

I picked up a ton of great skills, and the small size of the company was a blessing in disguise. I got to do a variety of things, and got a feel for how everything gets done. Bigger shops have more of a "You are to become this cog. You serve one function, and one function alone. Obey the collective." type thing.

I'm in games now, and making 60k at 24 years old. Officially, I'm still a freshman in college, and it hasn't once made a difference that I didn't get a degree. There are some great things to be learned at school, and I've just started back myself, but from my experience, a degree means nothing next to your portfolio.

As has been repeated over and over, it's the art that matters. Do what it takes to get good. Approach everything as if it were your masterpeice. Consider every bit of critisism ANYONE gives you. Graciously. Practice, study, and experiment. (Just drawing the same stuff over and over will make you faster, but hardly better.)

If you want it, and you're willing to work for it, you'll make it. The money will come.

[JoeKool]

justa fledgling..you asked for info on Inferno. It is kind of like premiere, after effects and photoshop rolled into one..but with both more and less the powers.
for example, i recently worked on a music video..and the band was in this clock tower. as the band played, the clock tower crumbled. we created a rock or two in max. from that we could create the whole ceiling, the cracks, the rocks falling..etc. we needed a big pendulum type of thing as well..well, we didnt get what we needed in the principle shooting, anbd we didnt model it..we just extended the one in the background and it tracked automatically in all the shots..we created a fake ceiling..just..crazy amazing stuff that was really simple to do..with amazing lighting effects and i cant say enough. it just rocks.
but..by the same token..you can't really do stuff like spooge or synj or whomever does in photoshop and illustrator..it isnt a drawing program..its for editing..but you do alot of "smoke n mirrors" type of stuff..the best effects are generally the ones you dont even know exist. and so think about it the next time you see a movie, music video..etc.
ps - no i dont work for microsoft, inferno, avid..etc. just a humble artist, dazzled by inferno's capabilities.
i know you can take classes in it at gnomon, dhima..etc.

[ November 15, 2001: Message edited by: JoeKool ]