Sijun Forums :: View topic - Line Quality for form and light and expression.....

Jason Manley · Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2001 9:16 pm

hi all

I want to start a thread to discuss line quality and line weight for form, space, light and expressive purposes.

I think that discussion of this topic would be beneficial to the young artists on these boards and will be able to help those who are more advanced as well.

Line Quality can be described as the range of thick to thin and dark to light in the line itself as well as the speed the lines are drawn etc...

I will start this by asking you these questions.

1 How is line quality used to create space?

2 How can line quality be used to suggest light?

3 How can line quality be used to express character?

4 How can line quality be used to creat form?

Answer any of these that you like and please keep this on topic. Needless banter will only clutter the thread.

Lets hear what you gotta say!

Feel free to ask questions.

jason

daniel.rodrigues · Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2001 9:33 pm

im no expert.. but as far as i know

1)line quality can be used to create space by thin lines on parts that are in the background or away from the viewer.
2)it can be used to suggest light by using dark lines for areas in shadow.. and light for areas in light..
3)i guess it can be used to express character by showing tense lines? or free flowing ones.. contrast?
4)Line quality can be used to create form by following contours.

im not sure if these are all correct.. but this is what i know so far.. id like to hear other people give their answers or expand/correct mine.

Jason Manley · Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2001 10:19 pm

through these discussions I am hoping to illustrate ways to analyze old master works and genuine works of art in ways that will help us all grow as artists.

here are some excellent examples.

feel free to provide your own as well.

pay CLOSE ATTENTION to the above questions when viewing these images.
http://www.artrenewal.org/images/artists/d/Dore_Gustave/large/Dore5.jpg
http://www.artrenewal.org/images/artists/d/Dore_Gustave/large/Dore11.jpg
http://www.artcyclopedia.com/feature-2000-09-raphael.html
http://sunsite.dk/cgfa/michelan/p-michel19.htm
http://www.abcgallery.com/M/michelangelo/michelangelo37.html
http://www.artpassions.net/rackham/gullivergallery.html
http://www.artpassions.net/cgi-bin/show_image.pl?../galleries/rackham/alice11.jpg
http://www.artpassions.net/cgi-bin/show_image.pl?../galleries/rackham/alice1x.jpg
http://www.artpassions.net/cgi-bin/show_image.pl?../galleries/rackham/alice4x.jpg
http://www.artpassions.net/cgi-bin/show_image.pl?../galleries/rackham/alice5x.jpg
http://www.artpassions.net/cgi-bin/show_image.pl?../galleries/rackham/gull12.jpg
http://www.artpassions.net/cgi-bin/show_image.pl?../galleries/rackham/fairydance.jpg

jason

smi · Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2001 3:21 am

Well, I'm just an amateur but I will anyway try to give my opinion and impressions to this pictures...

Gustave Dore:
His pictures seem very clean because of the usage of the straight linework. The farer away the objects are, the tighter and thinner are the lines. There is also less space between them than in the nearer objects. In the first picture the bride is drawn slightly more thight than the other characters, the pub is almost similar shaded, what gives a sense of "not as important". In the second picture the wanderer looks tired and some kind of depressed with this strong linework.

Raphael:
He imitates the light with thinner and less lines, and shadows with thicker and more lines.

Michelangelo:
The contures are strong and defined, the lines for the lightning very thight. In the second picture the guy looks a bit softy because the usage of very small and thight lines (are that lines?).

Rackham:
Many thick and strong defined outlines, what gives the pictures something of a comic character. Also the lines in the background are thick what makes the images look flat, but I like his style pretty much.

If I saw something wrong, please tell.

smi

[ October 16, 2001: Message edited by: smi ]

Pigeon · Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2001 8:37 am

In my own life drawings, I have a tendency to "dig in" as objects recede and let up as they come forward. This makes thicker lines as objects recede into the paper and thin lines as they emerge out. It works on a small scale, and adds a lot of movement, and some depth to drawings.

Conversely, on a piece with greater depth, objects in the distance will have thinner and sparser lines from hazing and elimination of detail that distance causes, and closer objects will have thicker, more detailed lines.

In life drawing, one way to explore depth with line is to do a cross-contour drawing. Instead of defining an object's edges, you define its curve into space. It ends up looking banded, like you took a string or strip of ribbon and wrapped it around your subject and then drew it. Alberto Giacometti and Henry Moore are neat examples of this kind of drawing. See if you can find some of their drawings instead of sculptures, and you'll see they do some neat things in this style, and contrast with each other nicely too.

Dean

Jason Manley · Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2001 10:08 am

these are great observations. The pulsation of line is particularily beautiful in micheangelos and raphaels work.

I think what you are all noticing is that there are many ways to create space, form and light with lines. It is possible to dig in and push into the space (see michealangelos painting with the linework) and also pull toward yourself in space (see the same image)

here is another question...now if..if you are pushing parts of the figure with line and letting go of parts of the figure with less line but still want to pull toward yourself with line, how do you balance it so that the entire form reads while the lines pulse in and out of space??? How can you do this and still maintain a particular area of focus on the piece? (for this question pick any painting or drawing you like)

the comments about dore's images and pulsating focuses for narrative importance were very well put. thanks.

keep em coming.

jason

Ben Barker · Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2001 8:42 pm

I love that Raphael studies for the Transfiguration. Much more than I like the final painting actually. It's one of the finest line drawings I've ever seen. Not a single line is wasted. I have a print out of it taped to the wall above my drawing table.

Pigeon's comments immediately made me think of Ghiberti's famous reliefs on the doors of the Bapistry Cathedral. He placed objects in the foreground in higher relief than objects in the background. Can you believe this is a relief?
It seems to be the same principle of line work that Pigeon mentioned transposed to a relief. I think a relief is more a drawing than a sculpture, in that respect, in the way that the rules of good linework apply much more. Line weight, varied by changing the amount of relief, is used to control the illusion of depth.

[ October 16, 2001: Message edited by: Ben Barker ]

Jason Manley · Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2001 8:47 pm

now mr barker...that was very well put. great work people!

keep it up.

those doors are absolutely amazing.

jason

burn0ut · Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2001 9:05 pm

i dont know if someone mentioned it already, but i think thick to thin lines create tension and movment in a pictures.. weight distrubution..
is that something that we are talking about in this thread?

Jason Manley · Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2001 10:28 pm

excellent point...

I have some of my own ideas...but I ask...

What are some ways to suggest weight and tension with line?

what are some ways to suggest less tension or less weight?

jason

burn0ut · Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2001 10:48 pm

well, im just typing as i think so..
I think tension can be achived with, straight, sharp, dark lines. i come to that because, when you tense up, all that excess bulk is pulled/straightend/tighter.
i say darker because of a cast shadow, or runoff light? im not sure what its called.
but when you tense your muscles/tendons want to be at the... shortest distance from point a and point b, so its going to show up on your skin more AHAH!! shit i cannot explain this at all!

more soon...

[ October 17, 2001: Message edited by: burn0ut ]

Pigeon · Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2001 8:23 am

In general burnOut (this applies to shape and form as well as line) sharp, thick, angular lines seem more aggressive and tension filled, masculine some would say, whereas smooth curving lines are more peaceful or feminine. Also, jumbled, crowded, crossing lines are more tense and aggressive, and sparse lines are more peaceful.

Good illustrations of the differences can be seen in a typical DeKooning portrait vs. a typical Matisse portrait. DeKooning's women are done very aggressively and jumbled, making a very tense piece, whereas Matisse's women are executed with light, delicate, almost never crossing lines, and seem very quiet and peaceful.

Dean

[ October 17, 2001: Message edited by: Pigeon ]