[Icebeast]

I just FEEL im gonna step on somebodys(prolly everybodys) toes and that this thread is gonna be flamed, but there is something that really bothers me. Don't shoot me for saying my opinion
When I look at the 2 artforums I notice only 1, no 2 things.

1. I see that only the posts of Spooge/Liquid!/Dhabid/(lotsa anciens)/... are the ONLY ones who get a descent reply. When they post a piece of art they get the mostest reply and then it almost always contains stuff like this: "Waw! I sure don't wanna meet that guy in the dark" "I'm your nr.1 fan!" "I'm stunned"
First, i'll set things clear here. I AM a great fan of Spooge/Liquid!/Dhabid/(lotsa anciens)/... but I just don't want to waste posts on saying how much I love their artwork and on how much i'd like to suck their heels (imho) I mean, they KNOW how good they are, they need nobody to tell 'em that (however it feels good to be worshipped )

2. So, because these dudez get for every thread they start about +/- 30 replys and the stuff from "newbees" and people that ask for critiques of their artwork gets pushed down because everybody wants to tell Spooge/Liquid!/Dhabid/(lotsa anciens)/... how good they are. Sigh, imho you should better spend your time in helping newbees and giving some constructive comment on their posts. There ALOT of people with GREAT potential in here, but they get discouraged by the fact their stuff gets pushed down and almost nobody replys (I've been there too, and I still am and it's not because MY work gets pushed down that im posting this thread, keep that in mind!)

Oh, and there is another small thing tho' Sometimes there are people that keep acting lame (don't say names now...). Let's work with an example, we'll call him Mr.X (let's hope this isn't a dude who is registered on the forum ). Mr.X posts something on the forum and he used lotsa filters/ripped somebody elses work/godknowswhat this Mr.X gets almost the same amount of replys as Spooge/Liquid!/Dhabid/(lotsa anciens)/... but only telling him how hard he SUCKS. You can spend 5 replys on saying how bad someone is, but please NOT 30(or 15, or anything above 10). It just a never ending story. Mr.X post keeps living, while others who tried hard and want some critique DON'T get any descent reply.

Yes I know this is maybe one of the biggest discussions in here, but my posts will serve as a reminder then
That's my opinion. You see the "MY" in that sentence ? It means that it's subjective ! It's what I think about it and I'm an openminded being so if you can proove me wrong, feel free to do so. Heh, this makes me sound like a selfish bastard

Ice.

PS. I hope I'm not going to push the 'more important' posts down

*MOD* Sorry for the spelling etc. it was typed in a rush, but I hope you still get the point

[This message has been edited by Icebeast (edited April 11, 2001).]

[Darklighter]

preach it bro! i've been replying to more "newbie" posts w/less replies lately rather than in the stuff from Enayla/Bizarde/etc because they already get 2349823 replies.... only reply there if i have something to comment, not just "wh0a, that r0x0rs"

[KrassOtti]

I agree, best example is Enayla's most recent pic [night before christmas one]. Yes it is great, but in no time already like 50 people came in there to say stuff like:

"Awesome!
Finally I have a new wallpaper. "

or

"Hi Enayla,
love your style and imagination!!!!"

or

"just realized i haven't said anything in this thread yet." [should keep this kinda stuff to random musings, hmm'kay?]

I believe that she knows that she is a very talented artist, but ass licking like that won't help her at all [except for a little ego boosting]. Personally I never posted on a thread of the very talented people... Just too much ass kissin already. My believe is that if you don't have anything to criticise that you shouldn't post. Make your post 50% praise and 50% critique.

well, that's my opinion :P

[edible snowman]

people do what they want, and if they want to post 50 replies, they're going to. one of the reasons its difficult to get replies at first is because there are so many people on this board, and to save time a lot of them only look at threads of people they know are good. this should be overcome with time as people begin to realize your talent

[hipmix]

Yes i agree...

BUT i think its good to let the artist
know that you like is art...
I mean i know what i like and sometimes
let people know i dig there style,
is just cool...
But i understand your point!
When its too much
ITS too much
: )

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www.pascalbeaulieu.homestead.com

[faustgfx]

stop picking on enayla. she can draw 5 times better than 99% of the people here. she deserves it.



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sky high with a heartache of stone you never see me 'cos i'm always alone

[email protected]
icq#35983387
http://faustgfx.0wns.org
webcam trend

[Enayla]

Why is it anybody's business why people reply, or not reply, to my posts?

This isn't the first time... before, it was "everyone replies to Enayla's posts just because she's a girl", and now it is "everyone replies to Enayla's posts just to suck up". What is this? Why do you care?

I am not the person in this forum receiving the most responses to my posts. And even if I was - that would really be my business, not yours.

I'm sorry, I'm really an easygoing, nice girl - but I have my limits. Stop picking on me. People respond to posts for whatever reasons they choose to - and I'm sick of being used as an example of "someone who doesn't deserve as many replies as she gets". Sick.

I, too, can get tired of seeing posts that have great pictures just disappear off the page because no one bothers to reply (not speaking of my pictures)... but I'm also very tired of this *points to the posts above*


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If there's a whip there's a way!

[balistic]

Asking people not to respond to fame or sex is rather optimistic.

Enayla, I don't think anyone meant to pick on you. You can't help that you're in a community whose inhabitants are largely male and adolescent . . . anyone who would expect you /not/ to get a bit of extra attention is delusional.

Personally, I'm almost always happy with the amount of feedback I get on things, and I don't think I've ever received more than a page worth. I can get my ass kissed on other forums, but I find a few solid critiques from here much more rewarding than a mass of 3D groupies hurling meaningless praise at me on some other board.

Yeah, Enayla and Spooge and others get a lot of attention . . . but do they really get any more /useful/ replies than you or me?



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"What we're hearing, techno, is the process of trying to create something of the future." - J.M.

Brian "balistic" Prince
3D Artist
Eggington Productions
www.bprince.com

[SporQ]

i have to agree, the problem isnt that others are getting lots of replies. they deserve them and i wont bitch about that. they work very hard, and have immense skill, and they should be told that. a reply doesnt have to be critical to be useful. praise is also very needed, especially when they deserve it.

but i know how you feel. it sucks to work very hard on a piece only to have it disappear. so discouraging in fact that i have just stopped posting. i mean whats the point, if people dont like my stuff, why add to the spam.

i am just trying to figure out why the replies dont come in for me. if it's cause i suck, thats one thing, and its my problem to work on. i dont think im that bad though, and i would hate to think the reason is that my style doesnt jive and thats the only reason. i mean, if i have to paint chicks with big guns or be another spooge clone, just to get noticed, then good ridance. its not worth giving up my style just to please an internet forum.

anywho, just wanted to get that off my chest and let y'all know why i havent been posting. i didnt start my own thread on this cause i didnt want to start a whining spam war, but since it's already started, i might as well add fuel to the fire

disgruntled-SporQ

[gLitterbug]

We all(including me) should stop ranting, what is the real problem of the forums in recent times. Everbody thinks he HAS to say what he dislikes here, but rather he should go out and give some critique on pics, or whatever. I�m starting now.
You too.
Please.

[Kreuze]

My .5 cents:

I agree with SporQ that it's not about giving certain people less replies, but giving others without any more. Spooge/Liquid!/Dhabih/Enayla/Bizarde/etc... are people too, I thinks it's good to tell them if your a fan of their work, what you like, which pieces etc. It's not like the board is filled with their stuff, and in my view people aren't "kissing up/Licking their heels/ kissing ass/" like I've heard said quite often. When I think of "kissing up" I think of someone acting (falsely sometimes) nice for personal benefit, how is it going to benefit me if I tell someone I don't even know personally his/her work is appreciated?

I also think Balistic has a point about useful replies, if you get a few replies that are useful or at least constructive and make you think about your work, than that can be as good a reason for posting as lots of replies and praise.

It's also good to realize that Sijun is a Microcosm of the real world, what gets lots of praise on Sijun may or may not get lots of praise elsewhere. Sure if you get lots of praise here you know you're probably got something pretty good going, but maybe somewhere else your work would just slip through the cracks, and something good that goes largely unnoticed here will be highly praised. Also the amount of replies to posts often doesn't correspond well to how much the artwork is liked on Sijun itself
[edit]( What I mean by this is people sometimes talk like number of replies are the judge of an artwork. It's not like this is a 10 reply post and this one deserves 5. Often enough replies aren't really artwork related. Nothing deserves any number of replies. So why fret about it? )Asking specific questions is a also a good way to get more crits/replies.
[/edit]

I got more replies from 85% photo referenced woman portrait studies than more original and complete work that took me longer.

Anyway, remember that people might just feel they don't have anything to say so they don't reply, and still like your work. Some work does go unnoticed because it isn't very good. But there's also a lot of good work among posts that go fairly unnoticed. (Sporq: I remember and liked your green guy chained to the wall. hmm.. it was a while ago, I'll be kicking myself if that one wasn't yours.)



[This message has been edited by Kreuze (edited April 14, 2001).]

[SporQ]

<---367 posts.

i'd say 90% of those are critiqing and commenting on others' posts. forgive me if i dont believe in "what goes around, comes around" anymore.

SporQ

[KrassOtti]

faust: I was NOT picking on Enayla. She just happened to have a post up on top with like 50 replies, so I took her for an example. If a Spooge thread would have been up there, I would have taken that for an example.

Enayla: It's not "everyone replies to Enayla's posts just because she's a girl", or "everyone replies to Enayla's posts just to suck up". I did not mean that. What bothers me a little is that most replies consist of just "dude, this roxors", instead of discussing the actual art work. It sux for newbies who do a nice job, but get rarely any feedback on their stuff since their stuff is gettin pushed of the top thanks to praise posts... I wouldn't mind a 50 posts thread if the content would actually be somewhat good :P

Now I am not trying to insult/flame anyone. I can just understand from where Icebeast is coming from... Personally I don't really care, I had a post once that got 0 replies. That just makes me work harder :P

edit: Typos :P

[This message has been edited by KrassOtti (edited April 11, 2001).]

[jcterminal]

i can understand where icebeast is coming from. it seems like you have to be popular to get comments. and it is true.

so your choice is, A) become popular, or B) start your own forum.

***

faustgfx and enayla: chill the fuck out. it was an example. nothing more, nothing less.

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j.c.terminal
mind
body
soul

[Icebeast]

How Ironic. Even at the discussionboard it happens.

KrassOtti, who said NOTHING wrong at all got flamed because he used an EXAMPLE. This is the shit im talking about. faustgfx is telling how great Enayla is etc. etc. WHY just Enayla ? Yeah, I know, she IS good. But other peopel like dhab, spooge, liquid! where set as an example too. Is it because she's a girl ? Maybe you should save your breath for that sort of stuff and maybe you should stop picking on everybody that you don't like. I've seen you around on the forums and the least I can say is that you can be a real pain. You're not encouraging anybody, rather DEcouraging IMHO. But, ofcourse i'm not your mom/dad and I can not tell you what to do.
I expect some childish jap from you(from what i've seen on the board) so I will intend not to reply further on this post.

Oh, and another thing. Yes, its nice if you are good and you get the compliments, but what about the others ? Don't they deserve it as much as the better artists ? If you would spend like 5replys less on worshipping the better artists and use it to encourage 5 DIFFERENT artists I think there will be way more happy faces, instead of people who think they suck.

And if people say:"Why YOU don't reply to those newbee posts" Well, the answer is simple. I dont find myself qualified, since i'm still a newbee in art and such, to post reply on others work and IF I reply I get negative respons by other artists who think I'm, yes you guessed it, not qualified to critique others work.

'nuff said

Ice.

[faustgfx]

flame and fight all you ever want, just don't be mean to enayla. period.

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sky high with a heartache of stone you never see me 'cos i'm always alone

[email protected]
icq#35983387
http://faustgfx.0wns.org
webcam trend

[S4Sb]

What's so bad about ego boosts?

I think it's better to encourage somebody doing art then replying to a thread like this. because ALL THAT HAS ALREADY BEEN SAID!

doh

[Sumaleth]

Issue One; Replying

If you've been following the forum for any length of time one thing becomes obviously clear; people respond most to -what they like-.

Lets back the truck up a little; whats the point of art? There are probably two answers to that; having fun as an artist, and making stuff that other people get enjoyment from.

You'll notice that only half of those possibilities effects -other people-, and IMO thats why people post things like "That's a great pic!" They really respond to that image. And it's no coincidence that it's usually the same artists; something about their work reacts positively with the most people.

I think if anyone is disappointed they're not getting more replies, they need to answer this question; why am I drawing pictures? Is it more for myself, or more for other people? If you answer the latter, you need to really study the forum and work out what it is that people react positively (and uncontrolably to). (the answer is more than likely; quality)

Critiquing on in a useful way, on the other hand, is VERY hard, especially over a long period of time. Eventually you find yourself saying the same things over and over. The best thing anyone can do to make their art better is to practice and study, and really absorb any comments that may happen to come your way.

Issue Two; Flaming.

Flaming is a real problem on forums like this because it quickly turns into a feedback loop - you're an idiot! / no you are! / I said you are! / but you are! - and it goes absolutely nowhere.

If you can resist posting a flame, even when it's obviously called for (especially then), you're doing the forum a great favour.

(all IMHO)
Row.

[S4Sb]

one more thing... I hate people who get a new account to say what they think but fear that their real account gets flamed.

Icebeast
Posts: 5
Apr 2001

[Ben Barker]

I've noticed that people reply to threads with good artwork in them.

[Chapel]

Like Ben said. If you do something people like then you will get replies. Plain and simple. Course you can always do something that offends everyone and you get replies that way too.

What I don't get is why we have a junior member who has only posted/replied 5 times complaining. Lurkers can contribute too.

[micke]

This discussion has been popping up from time to time now and i'm sure it's not the last..Just let people reply to whatever they like.
Bla bla bla..

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Mikael's artwork

[jcterminal]

quote:

---

Originally posted by faustgfx:
flame and fight all you ever want, just don't be mean to enayla. period.

---

oh my knight in shining armour.

*rolls eyes*


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j.c.terminal
mind
body
soul

[sacrelicious]

Hey jcterminal, there's actually a roll-eyes smiley face. It looks like this:

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What is your obsession with my forbidden closet of mystery?

[DiXter]

Hmm.. I think people have the right to respond to whatever they think is good.
bla bla bla...

I think its totally awesome when someone with skills like spooge give constructive crits or does a remake of some "newbees" picture.




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Dixter

[Frost]

Good post Suma, I think there is much truth in what you've written there...

[fshock]

quote

Quote:

I dont find myself qualified, since i'm still a newbee in art and such, to post reply on others work and IF I reply I get negative respons by other artists who think I'm, yes you guessed it, not qualified to critique others work.

First of all, a critique is an opinion and you have every right in the world to give it no matter what your status is.
There is no qualification when it comes to art.Except having feelings, because thats all art is, its an expression of what you feel.

As for the topic of this thread, I don`t think 50 people posting the same thing about someones work is bad, everyone has the right to do so. Just like they have the right not to post anything at all.

And from the other side, people shouldn`t get upset when there name is used as an example.

If no one replys to your thread, well then just post it again. Make sure you ask people to comment on it. Also, try coming up with a catchy title for the thread...



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fotoshock

[Sumaleth]

Um... if no one responds to your image, -don't- just post it again. Think about why no one responded, make the next picture better.

Row.

[Binke]

Suma pretty much said it all, I agree with him..

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Art Dimensional

[fshock]

Its a little hard to know what to make better if no one tells you what needs to be fixed.

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fotoshock