[nova]

my question is fairly simple.. does anyone know of any good art scholarships out there, based on contests, portfolio, etc? Art school is expensive



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*nova
!

[faustgfx]

those are useless. as are art schools.



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sky high with a heartache of stone you never see me 'cos i'm always alone/ministry
the law of lead now reigns!@#!/earth crisis

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[Svanur]

Why useless?

[faustgfx]

just a piece of paper.

i didn't need them.



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sky high with a heartache of stone you never see me 'cos i'm always alone/ministry
the law of lead now reigns!@#!/earth crisis

[email protected]
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[Flinthawk]

I don't have a single degree here either and I'm working...though for some people a structured learning environment can be better plus schools are good for making contacts

[nova]

ah, i should've known.. thanks for the help.



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*nova
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[wayfinder]

of course, if faustgfx doesnt need an art school, it's useless

[Flinthawk]

Sorry if I couldn't help any, Nova. I'm looking back at all our responses here, including mine, and noticing that none of us really answered your question.

To answer your question, no, I didn't find many scholarships that I could take part in to pay for school. Most of that is because each and every scholarship out there paid it off in a way the school couldn't accept since my particular school isn't federally funded yet (no Stafford loans, etc.)

There are scholarships out there though, check with your guidance councelor at school (I'm assuming you're in high school, forgive me if I'm wrong). I checked with mine, who was actually more of a career councelor, when I was looking for scholarships and he was able to point me in the right direction.

Hope this helped in any small way

-Flinthawk

*in case you were confused by my two posts, one saying I don't have a degree and the other saying that I went to school, yes, I went to school for a short time...mostly programming though and I didn't finish the programming or the animation course before getting snatched up by my current job*

[SporQ]

spooge went to art school
faust didnt

who gets worshipped more??

SporQ

[faustgfx]

he's twice my age, about 22 years more experience on it, and does not do completely opposite side of the whole graphics deal for "fun" and for living.



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sky high with a heartache of stone you never see me 'cos i'm always alone/ministry
the law of lead now reigns!@#!/earth crisis

[email protected]
icq#35983387
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[faustgfx]

should i add to that, if there was a way for me to get any other kind of job without having to go through junior high school again and then some more higher level education, i'd switch jobs immediatedly.



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sky high with a heartache of stone you never see me 'cos i'm always alone/ministry
the law of lead now reigns!@#!/earth crisis

[email protected]
icq#35983387
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[faustgfx]

(by the way, fuck you too sporq, almost forgot that. i enjoy every bit of my lack of drawing skills.)



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sky high with a heartache of stone you never see me 'cos i'm always alone/ministry
the law of lead now reigns!@#!/earth crisis

[email protected]
icq#35983387
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[Ben Barker]

You can edit posts, BTW.

I'm in "art" school now. I put art in quotes, because design is not art. Basically, I will sit on this crap major for 4 years so I can get a piece of paper, or get so sick of it I cut my losses and get in the car next year and go to California.
Either way, I have to rely on myself to improve as an artist. Because the small bits of knowledge I can glean from my classes, versus the mountains of ridiculous shit and insane money it costs, really isn't worth it unless you count that piece of paper at the end. And any value that has is purely abstract.
I'm banking on a big change in the game industry in 15 years, where degrees become a sad necessity just like every other field.

There are so few art scholarships because art dosn't bring colleges a lot of money. Sports does, hence sports scholarships out the ass. The reality is, being good at playing football isn't going to do anything for you in the real world, and in the meantime you don't even have to go to class because you can kick a ball and you get a free ride anyway.

Bitter? Yes. Hell yes, in fact. But I'm trying to give college a fair chance, I really am. I keep saying "It will get better, it's just bad now." But then another amazingly stupid policy on the part of the faculty here wakes me up. And it isn't improving.
I'm surrounded by people who can't draw, aren't creative, and think the future holds nothing but sunny skies because design requires none of those skills. Swept under the rug are the hundreds of graduates with "top-rated" degrees, that can't find jobs for years because noone hires a candidate with a pathetic portfolio.

Let's face it. Design is nothing but a trite set of rules a monkey could follow to turn out the same webpage, the same luxury car, the same ridiculous clothing, and the same crappy contemporary architecture over and over, until it dies from all of the begging, borrowing, and stealing of ideas from its peers that design relies on.
There's a reason why all new sedans look the same. It's the same reason why every piece of computer technology now looks like the iMac, and the same reason why if you ask an industrial designer to draw a spaceship he will draw a car with wings.
Are there talented people in college and design? Oh yeah. They are the standard setters from which the other 95% shamelessly copies. But don't expect talent and enthusiasm to be the norm. College is not all it's cracked up to be. It certainly isn't a community of any kind, especially an academic one. I'm more of a number here than I ever was in high school. These aren't "the best years of my life", and I find little enrichment in the tedious, backwards, and inflexible curriculum of my supposedly top-rated school.
Instead it's a money pit dominated by tenured professors who don't give a damn, and a so-called "legendary" social life that revolves completely around alcohol. Your curriculum is set by a committee that meets for one week once every two years, and requests for help pass up the bloated bueracracy where noone knows who made the rules, or why they are there, but blindly follows them as for fear of critically thinking.

So, save your money. Just buy some books, and draw your ass off. Go to a private figure drawing class and draw draw draw. Watch TV, see movies, create a portfolio. Get a job. In 4 years you will be that much more ahead of us college slobs. Don't kid yourself. College is not a center of learning. College is a business. It's source of income is its students, and its product is graduate research. Undergraduate education is something it does on the side to keep up appearances.

And if you do go to college, go to a small college. A college where you can make a difference and people are serious about learning and teaching. But unless some standardized test says so, don't count on a lot of scholarship money.



[This message has been edited by Ben Barker (edited January 04, 2001).]

[Bradford]

i am in art school for 3d animation. www.scad.edu

it may be a peice of paper, but it goes a long way. faust i don't want to seem like a prick but from a lot of your posts it sounds as if you do not like your job. i could be wrong.

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[email protected]
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[faustgfx]

i'm more into textures, interfaces, "2d", that sort of thing.

i've yet to stumble upon a school that specializes in those.

it's all self learned. i might suck with drawing, but i know the what i call "technical drawing"; textures and interfaces and all things related.

bradford, yeah, i'd rather be a simple bartender guy or something along those lines than a "Graphics Artist / Designer" ...


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sky high with a heartache of stone you never see me 'cos i'm always alone/ministry
the law of lead now reigns!@#!/earth crisis

[email protected]
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[This message has been edited by faustgfx (edited January 04, 2001).]

[Bradford]

formal education is best top quality stuff you can possibly get. the people who say art schools are a waiste of time are either jealous because they were rejected by the school(s) they applied to, or simply lack the knowledge of what institutions like these have to offer. but i should point out it depends on what kind of major you are planning for. for someone to say "just buy books any work from there" is a very very wrong. i don't care how many posts i have, to say that i am waisting my money for an education is degrating my intelligence. when im working for pixar or whoever and your working for that low life company we will see who is laughing. dhabih went to an art school and look where he is.

now if you'll excuse me i will be waiting for the next of flame posts people are going to suprise me with.





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[faustgfx]

yeah well since i don't *draw* for living i won't even bother to comment anymore.

we have artists in our company who have gone to expensive 'n cool art schools.

too bad they're the lowest level workers here, they know nothing about the work itself, or how the technology works, and have no eye for any of it.

sad but true. *alligator smile*



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sky high with a heartache of stone you never see me 'cos i'm always alone/ministry
the law of lead now reigns!@#!/earth crisis

[email protected]
icq#35983387
http://faustgfx.0wns.org

[Ben Barker]

Well, first of all, you go to Savannah, which looks like a much better school than Cincinnati now. Although I always see the same 10 pieces of computer art in your advertisements and on your website, which makes me suspicious.
But this statement:
"formal education is best top quality stuff you can possibly get"
is total bullshit.
Not only did I get accepted to every school I applied to, including SCAD, I have thoroughly investigated what UC has to offer. I've been up and down the chain of command over and over in this place.
I wanted college to be awesome so bad. I was so excited about it. Only my experience has forced me to do a 180 and see what's really happening.
And don't say "XXX went to an art school, and he/she is sucessful", because that's totally irrelevant. I could point out people who went to engineering school, or no school, and are making it in the game industry.
Hah, when you're working for Pixar and I'm failing. Yeah, we'll see you snob. Happy landings.

[Flinthawk]

I'd have to say that Ben's view of college parallels my own views. Are they the correct views...*shrugs*, dunno, haven't been to an actual college. I didn't want to go to some ordinary college where I'd be just another number in rather large classes that wouldn't teach me anything I can't learn on my own. If there's one thing I didn't mention in my previous posts it's that I personally believe that it comes down to the individual to practice their butts off in order to get better. Sure, everybody needs some guidance from time to time, to point them in the right direction, but I find that some people need that less than others.

As for my school, I was fortunate enough to be part of a class of 18 students with 5 teachers teaching the six classes we had each semester. You have to love that teacher to student ratio when compared to universities nowadays. That and we were working with top of the line equipment, better equipment than I'm working on now infact! I'm sometimes sorry that I missed out on the typical college experience...the parties, the social life, sports, etc., but in the end taking the road less travelled has helped me greatly.

I think Ben's also right in saying that the game industry will eventually want to see degrees before they'll hire...I've already heard of it. Dynamix across town here reportedly requires a degree before they'll hire an artist now. My director chuckled at that because he says that the three people he picked up from my school, including myself, are much better than anybody they pick up from the university here...and none of us graduated yet. My personal opinion is that a degree is nice and all but when it comes down to it you want to have somebody who can produce when the time comes. It seems that anybody can get through college now and get their degree and still have a crappier portfolio than any of my classmates who'd only been at my school for less than a year. I've seen portfolios from people that have gone through 4 or more years of school and it's amazing that they even graduated until you realize that grading art is under quite the debate for some time now...art is in the eye of the beholder so how do you quantify that with a letter or number grade?

As for my personal plan, I take the time off to go to the local coffee shop and sit down for two or three straight hours and just sketch. Sketch objects, sketch people, sketch up concepts based on objects and people...I'm getting better and better each time I go. The only thing that could be better is if I could bring my computer with me and do color sketches but then I suppose I can always use another of many traditional mediums to get the same learning experience.

I'm rambling now, but that's because each new reply brings up another personal thought on the subject of art and school. It's intersting to see what other people think on a subject like this, even though it wasn't what the thread was started for in the first place :\

-Flinthawk

*I'll shut up sometime tonight*

[Bradford]

ben barker: i would have to admit i went a little overboard. but i get really angry when people tell me art schools are a waist of time and money. im sorry to see cincinnati is pleasing you so well. i can understand that, savannah isn't everything i thought it was cracked up to be. but i wish people would stop saying this negative crap about art schools.

it's what you make of it. faust brought up a good point that he has people in his company that suck and they went to nice art schools. and there are also people who never thought about art school and they are in the top hop companies. i simply used pixar as an example.

but art school art not a waist of time or money. that is the point im trying to stress.

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[Plop]

[Ben Barker]

Yeah, you're right. I went pretty overboard too. Everyone just disregard what I said and form your own opinion (not sarcastic). You will be better off that way.
I'm thinking of forgetting about formal computer education and just going with fine arts.
Only time will tell. I'm going to give it till at least then end of the school year.

[edit]

There are some major problems with college though. Mainly, the myth of its complete necessity, and the myth of what college life is like. You can expect from it what you put into it. It will not solve any problems.

[This message has been edited by Ben Barker (edited January 04, 2001).]

[Jyashuwa]

You got the rest of your life to work.
If getting that "piece of paper" and paying expensive loans means that I can devote a good 2-4 years fine tuning my skills and doing nothing but "My art". I'm all for it. To me, and art job, is still just a "job"

Just my 2 cents

Goodnight all.

[Rinaldo]

*pokes head around corner*
here's a couple a nice threads 'bout art schools if anyones interested. first one has the meat in it (at least concerning the disscusion going on here). seond is there cos the first follows on. you've all prolly read these. but for those that haven't. some interesting thoughts in there. easier than contributing with the same shtuff over and over again anyways.
http://www.sijun.com/dhabih/ubb/Forum2/HTML/006193.html
http://www.sijun.com/dhabih/ubb/Forum2/HTML/006153.html

[SporQ]

whoa, calm down faust. just a joke. never been to art school myself.

SporQ

[Flinthawk]

Wow, thanks for the links, Rinaldo. Must've been away during the time those threads came to or I just didn't have any interest in reading them at the time. I'm halfway through Fred Flick Stone's post/novel and I'm already getting some valuable insight into the subject.

-Flinthawk

[faustgfx]

*puts the scythe away

just stating out facts.


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sky high with a heartache of stone you never see me 'cos i'm always alone/ministry
the law of lead now reigns!@#!/earth crisis

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[Sieb]

Bradford- Good for you. I just got back from SCAD. That was the biggest waste of my time, and if any school is a business, that school is. The administration is totally useless and uncaring. They hardly pay you any attention unless your a junior or senior. Lets see, I spent a year setting things up with them, and they lost all my paperwork, never talked to me, called me the week before I left asking me things about being a freshman when i was supposed to be a transfer like we told them a year ago. I get there and they give me someone elses schedual and paperwork (some architect major). They made my schedual that day I showed up. So I ended up paying for 3 classes I already took here at home for a fraction of the cost. I couldnt change because everything was full. They sent all the paperwork on portfolio reviews to my house after I already left so I had non of the mounds of papers they wanted for each piece. And I would be stuck taking drawing classes over again. But then again, everyone I talked to that transfered there this year got the same treatment. I even talked to teachers and other people who worked for the school and they complained about how bad the Admin was. Savannah is a great place, one of the reasons I wanted to go so bad. But I get there and they they just see you as a dollar sign. $11k down the hole, and they want more even after I left.

So I said fuck'em and left. Now Im here again at home going back to the community college getting my Networking certifications. At the end of the semester, I can demand a large sum of money for my pay whereever I go thanks to that little piece of paper. (Then again, State Farm Regional HQ is down the streeet)

To anyone out there looking to go somewhere, Check out the Art Institues that are all over the place. I was planning on going to denver to pick up where I left off at SCAD. And a friend of mine just went to Arizona's AI for game design. The minute I signed up, they tracked me town and talked my ear of with support, it was great. SCAD just called wanting money. My account manager lady never returned our calls, emails, nothing for 8 months.. Screw that..

Be on the look out, Most colleges are just public corperations. A few out there are actually teach you stuff as if you are a student. Not a $... As far as the piece of paper, sure, it would be nice to have one wtih SCADs name on it, but I really dont need it for 3d animation. And I can still go to SIGRAPH and get reviewed by the big companies. What you do need is a portfolio. Sure, go out, buy books, take a few classes, draw like a mad man. Anyone can take a class to tell you how to draw, but your the one that has to apply the skils and create. And you create through practice. I would find it more impressive to hire someone who has built a portfolio by themselves with work they have done on their own without school teaching. As opposed to the guy that just went to SCAD and just did what he was told to do. Am I bitter? Hell yea I am. But am I getting my moneys worth now? Damn right I am.



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[jeffery]

sieb - amen to that. i can add that the experience of going to sheridan college in oakville, ontario (familiar to the canucks on this board, probably) was exactly as stifling, frustrating and negative as yours at SCAD. i dropped out after 1 semester with straight a's, and got most of my money back. and surprise surprise, now i'm working in my field and having a good time of it.

sheridan hopefuls, beware!

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Make your eyes smile