[Bugscratch]

Hope you guys will agree that this falls into the "Philosophy campfire" category.

Waking up this morning and still suffering from the consequences of last night's party, I thought a bit about alcohol and it's effects on people.
Here are the few points I came up with:

negative aspects:

a) Alcohol decreases your ability to perceive, encompassing seeing, hearing and feeling.
b) Alcohol slows down your brain, you think slower.
c) Alcohol makes you see things more positive than they actually are.
d) Alcohol ruins your control over your body.

positive aspects:

And that was the hard part. Even thinking hard I couldn't find a single positive thing about drinking alcohol. Not one.

So as a conclusion I am considering deciding to completely stop consuming alcohol whatever be the occasion. I really like the idea.

positive aspects of not drinking:

a) You maintain full control of your body, speech and your thinking and perception abilities
b) You don't offend people by talking crap, by destroying things, or by vomiting in their general direction
c) You can drive your car

negative aspects of not drinking:

a) You'll miss the beer.
b) Some people will think you're strange
c) You'll have less fun on parties because you don't understand people's silly jokes and behaviour

Still, as a conclusion, we see that alcohol is the cause of ALL THINGS EVIL. IT SHOULD THEREFORE BE OUTLAWED. REVIVE PROHIBITION ! Errm. Yes. Strike the last paragraph.

So jokes aside what do you guys think about it ?
Do you drink, like to drink, want to keep drinking, think drinking is good ?
Or do you not drink, hate drinking, hate any drinks containing alcohol and generally hate everyone drinking ?

-bugscratch

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"Every intelectual has two countries of origin: His own and Syria."
---Syrian Pavillon @ EXPO 2000 ---

[This message has been edited by Bugscratch (edited February 11, 2001).]

[Ragnarok]

You forget that alcohol destroys our body.
I don't drink, although I like some alcohol drinks.

[Bugscratch]

I thought about that, but that sounds like a bit of a weak argument. Loosing a few thousand brain cells that I don't actually use seems irrelevant to me.

[Bugscratch]

Thinking about it now I think this topic is not at all about philosophy....philosophy is about understanding life, while this is more about moral standards and such.
But whatever, sitting around the fire drinking beer for countless hours discussing life, maybe this topic would arise too when the first people drop out....

-bugscratch

[Count Zero]

I used to despise alcohol, in all shapes and forms. I scoffed at my classmates who drank alcohol and got drunk practically every weekend. This lasted for several years.

Then once, I actually tried the stuff.

Now I condone alcohol and its consumption, but within limits. I drink semi-regularly, but never to the extent of being drunk (under the table, crawling home kind of drunk; a little tipsy is fine ). I don't want to lose control of myself, physically or mentally. I like clarity. If someone else wants to get totally pissed, go right ahead. Just don't bother me too much.

I also require people, as I'm a social drinker. That's why I don't like clubbing as much as bars. I like talking to people over a glass of beer or whatever. Alcohol also serves to loosen people up a bit, this may or may not be a placebo effect though.

Damn, this thread is making me thirsty...

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[peter]

bugscratch: very philosophic topic i though see the brain damage as the most negative aspect of alcohol.

ragnarok: you like some drinks, but dont drink em ? you like them for visual aspects ?

my opinion regarding alc: sometimes. it makes me forget about bad things like pollution and you have mor fun in clubs etc...
another bad aspect of alc is:

[FaithInChaos]

i live in the u.s.
where alcohol plays a factor in more deaths than everything else combined.
the people in charge using some serious fucked up reasoning determined that alcohol should be legal.

either they should outlaw all drugs in my country (with the exception of perscription medicine), or they should legalize everything. if they legalized all drugs, it would solve a lot of things. the war on drugs would have to stop (meaning this endless waste of taxpayers money would end as well), the market would be flooded by every mom and pop dopefiend, prices would go down (crack addicts wouldnt feel the need to steal my shit), safty standards could be installed, and as a result it would put all the drug lords out of business. and all the bitches in jail on drug offense's could be set free, leaving room for society's real criminals. for example: people who smell

[Count Zero]

When it comes to alcohol, I, as a foreigner, see the US as a odd puppy; you have to 21(!) to drink even mild alcohol but in most states you can drive a car at 16.

Personally, I would rather hand a 16 year old a bottle than a car, and at 21, I'd appreciate a car more than a drink.
But that's just me.

FaithInChaos, I'm inclined to agree with you, at least partially. If alcohol (and tobacco for that matter) were discovered today, they would not be legalized.

It's a social thing. Alcohol has been around for thousands of years, it has history.

[strata]

*AHEM*

A herd of buffalos is never faster then it's slowest animal. Should the herd get hunted it will always be the slowest and weakest animal that gets killed first. Thus the herd gets faster/better since there are only stronger animals remaining.

The human brain works in much the same way, and as we all know, alcohol destroys brain cells. In the same way as the buffalo herd it's the weakest brain cells that get topped off first, which is also why we after a few beers/glasses of wine/drinks feel more confident and clever, since we've erased all our bad braincells.

Hence continuous drinking over an extended period of time will actually make you smarter.

tee hee

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Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?

[faustgfx]

relocating back to the zero via an absolute blackout.



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sky high with a heartache of stone you never see me 'cos i'm always alone/ministry
the law of lead now reigns!@#!/earth crisis

[email protected]
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http://faustgfx.0wns.org

[absinthe]

considering that i'm mildly drunk right now, this might not be entirely fair...

a) alcohol is a depressant. it does not make you see things as more positive than they actually are. it inclines you toward negative responses.

b) however, alcohol knocks down your inhibitions. this almost entirely makes up for point a. and it's not that people are more attractive while drunk, it's just that you're less likely to say 'hey that's not up to my standards...' because your inhibitions have been lowered, and you're more likely to go for ANYTHING.

i don't particularly enjoy the taste of alcohol. i've acquired a certain affinity for beer, and i can choke down most other things as long as there's enough flavour-covering soda involved.

i generally don't enjoy people who have been drinking unless i myself have also been drinking...i don't like it when people choose to detract from their (usually) already minor intelligence.

however...i find that the numbing effects of alcohol make it worth it to me, or at least they have in the last year or so. when i'm drunk enough, nothing really matters as much. of course there's a fine line that mustn't be crossed, or i end up making a scene about the precise things i'd meant to forget, but with some care as to how much i drink, it's all good.

i never drink so much that i get sick. i can't understand people who do. it's not that hard to notice the point at which you don't need anymore, and switch your drinks to water. which helps/entirely kills the hangover.

all this said, i don't technically LIKE alcohol...but i firmly believe it should be out there for people to partake of. i dislike it when people make a conscious choice to become more stupid than they already are. it's justified in certain situations...or at least it feels necessary. but i don't LIKE it. but...hey, that's everyone's own choice, isn't it.

including mine.

[Ragnarok]

peter: I don't usually drink, but from time to time I drink some tasty alcohol drinks, like cocktails.

About the bad alcohol effects on the body, it's not only brain, but the stomach, and some others I don't know the translation

And bugscratch, I can tell you you won't succed very much, you should try to go on steps. Like, for example, avoid hard drinks, after some time avoid some of your usual drinks, then avoid beer, then don't drink. Trying to stop now will be too hard, really.

Count Zero, I have drunk once in my life till I began to loose control (and I don't think it was very much) and I didn't like the feeling. I like to have auto control and be aware of my surroundings.

[Lukias]

Although as I get older, smoking and drinking and etc tend to weigh more heavely upon my mind, I'd have to say that alcohol has played many a happy part in my teen years.
I started at thirteen and parties would not have been what they were if not for it(and the girls sure were nicer after a few ).
I agree, it does screw you over if you consume in access you'll suffer the consiquences. Mind you I've drunken virtually every weekend for the last 8 years and I consider myself rather healthy.

Famous last words...

[Ian]

Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeed

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Sit on my face, and tell me that you LOVE me!

[Bradford]

i have never had alcohal in my life, and im 19. is that strange? maybe. i almost always end up being the person driving a car full home of drunk friends or people who i do not even know from parties. it's not that i don't want to drink, it's that i never saw the point. basically i took into account many of the things you pointed out bugscratch. perhaps i should forget about the reasons. *evil grin*

ive never been pushed into it by others, i suppose most of the people i know are mature enough to respect my descision.

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[Bugscratch]

Count Zero: Yeah just try to ban alcohol in Germany, the land of beer..... Nope, it's too late. Prohibition showed where it'd end.

Bradford: A friend of mine made the same decision....he was the one to drive me home last night
But I really admire that strength of will, not to drink alcohol when everyone else is doing it.

So I think I'm going to do the same thing, that is not to drink any form of alcohol anymore. I just wonder whether I'll be able to do it, because I really like a good beer from time to time.

[Freddio]

Umm you forgot that its fun

especially with friends...


You just have a good time..


Id rather hand a Kid a car than a bottle...

I mean Geez what type of pleb can't drive a car...
Giving a kid a bottle at 16 invites them to abuse alchahol. Their liver hasnt developed and a lot of damage is cause..

Im 16...

everyone drinks wether they like it or not..

[ceenda]

Freddio: I don't drive. Mind you, we (apparently) have the best public service transport in the UK, so there's no need.

With regard to alcohol, if I was a police officer confronted with 2 guys, one drunk and the other high, I know which one to be wary of.

[S4Sb]

Ganja! mmmmh!

[Socar MYLES]

The first time I ever drank alcohol was at my nineteenth birthday party...They fed me most of a bottle of vodka, then turned on the videocamera.... Now, I don't know what the hell possessed me, but I spent the next couple of hours trying to push a large empty box up the stairs with my nose. And it's on videotape. Ugh. Eventually, I fell asleep. Quite embarrassing, really....

I've never got drunk enough to vomit.

But one time, I was slightly tiddly and chatting online, and I wrote 'smebaraping' instead of 'embarrassing'.

Yay.

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My old man's a dustman
'E wears a dustman's 'at
'E wears gorblimey trousers...
AAAAAAAAND....
'E lives in a council flat!

[tayete]

Well, I live in Spain, as Ragnarok, and here alcohol is a social element. As our German friends, you can find it everywhere since you are a little kid, and you associate it to parties, celebrations, etc...when you see your parents drinking and enjoying it.
When you grow up you have to make your mind up: "Should I drink?".
In Spain, as most of your friends will do it, your choice will be quite biased, as you won�t be able to stay the whole night up with a bunch of drunken goblins wandering around...it�s really boring.
And me, well, I did not have the strenght of Ragnarok and used to drink every week end, not only beer and wine (Spain�s most popular soft drinks), but harder ones.
Then, when I was 26 I started to work in a disco, and even had my own bar. There I could see what alcohol made people: they enter to the local well dressed and happy, and three hours later they are nothing but a mess of dirt, bad smell, and rudeness (I do not know if this word exists). And worst of it all...I discovered women do not like men who are drunk, even though you may think you are telling the funniest story ever!!!
So, I quit drinking hard drinks, and only drink beer and wine, which I can drink *nearly* as much as I want without getting drunk, I found my wife being sobber, and I really enjoy parties because I know what�s happenning, and I know next morning will be better.
The worst part of it all: I used to stay up the whole night until 10 AM, and now at 4 AM I am really tired, and bored of seeing drukards by me...but I think this is that I am getting old!!!

[Enayla]

I don't need alcohol.

It's really as simple as that. I'm confident and secure in myself, and I've never felt a need to use any kind of drug to change my behaviour towards other people. I like my high standards when it comes to other people, and I don't want to end up with someone I would think "below" me under normal circumstances.

Even if I didn't think it tasted worse than horse piss (though gods know I've never actually TASTED that, so don't worry) I would still not be interested in drinking... nor that interested in boys that drink and try to slobber all over me... Ewww...



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��You can't leave footprints in the sands of time if you're sitting on your butt��
(And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?)

[Ragnarok]

tayete, I have to agree with you.
I've gone out enough times to know I don't like it. I'm 17 and everybody goes out every weekend and usually get as drunk as possible.
I've been there, looking at them, trying to have a good time, but the only goal of going out is drinking and somking. No jokes, social chats, stupid games, nothing but alcohol and cigarettes (or joints). I was bored, so I don't go out anymore. When I find a group of friends who go out with a more interesting purpouse, I will go too. Right now it doesn't deserves all that time and money (it's a bit expensive, you know).

But hey, in christmas eve and special ocassions I have a cup, something like a scotish coffee or sorbete (lemon icecream with champagne).

[Frozen Consciousness]

What alcohol are you guys drinking? What's all this about "it makes you happier"? "Knocks down inhibitons"?
I must be drinking the wrong stuff because the only thing alcohol does to me is makes me even more depressed and more defencive in what I say, all of which makes me think something is wrong and I drink more in the hope I'll have as good a time as everyone else is having.

That's drunken logic for you.

We have the best public transport here in the UK? Compared to where? The Amazon Jungle?

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Frozen mind, Frozen cause, Frozen Reality.

[Socar MYLES]

Augh...You've got me feeling all guilty now, Enayla.... I'm sitting here all alone, and it's only 5:00, and I'm drawing & drinking tea with Bailey's in it.... (WHAT A LOSER!)

(I'm not getting drunk, of course! I'm just drinking tea with Bailey's. Augh.... *Snif* I've got a cold.)



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My old man's a dustman
'E wears a dustman's 'at
'E wears gorblimey trousers...
AAAAAAAAND....
'E lives in a council flat!

[Lukias]

I think NZ and AUS are the worst....well we consume the most beer in the world per head of pop.
Anyway, I don't know anyone who *doesn't* drink, truth. I honestly don't know what I'd do on the weekends without alcholol, its essential to consume a 1doz before going out.

[Krazykate]

I had an uncle that was an alcaholic and a chain smoker-so Thank God-I can have one drink and stop.

The funny thing is-I can never remember seeing him DRUNK--but always sneaking a shot glass of something during the day, so he was never really sober either!?!?!

I don't think it's the substance- it's how it controls you or you control it.

[Duckman2]

I really don't see the harm in throwing back a few brews when you get home or one the weekend. I don't think it's okay when drinking gets in the way of your life then it needs to be treated.

[aquamire]

I got stinking drunk once at a party when I was 17.. we drank in a sauna. (Bad idea..) That night my then girlfriend decided she would make out with a bunch of guys she barely knew, and that was before she got drunk. You dont even want to know how she behaved after she got drunk. So now, whenever I smell alcohol or even take a small sip of it, I get sick to the stomache immediately, because that particular night rings in my mind.. watching my girlfriend make out with a bunch of other guys.

Needless to say, we didnt last after that. The one good thing out of it, was I met this great girl who helped me out through the whole situation, and hey, one day we ended up engaged. Altho, thats over now.. shes 1500 miles away and we barely talk. To many depressing memories associated with being drunk.. blah!



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-Aquamire
"Quotes are for mislead wussies." - Me.

[DirtyDigger]

In my own experience alchohol gives your mind a break from thinking.

This IMHO is worth every drop.

Of course I'm an overworked dog who somehow keeps accepting more and more responsibilities.

I use it as more of a break from reality than anything else and even if I get totally shitfaced and crawl around puking I feel like 1000% better the next morning and am ready to take on the world.

As a sidenote I only drink maybe once a month or so, with maybe an occasional beer here and there if I have pizza or something (but I'm an old fucker now, when I was in the Navy that was a whole different ballgame .


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"I Hear High Heels!" - DirtyDigger