[spooge demon]

Playing hooky.
Should be working don't tell anyone.
Maybe should have kept working.

How far can you go with loosing edges and form? It really is important to think about which ones to keep. Helps with motion, too.

How do you capture the feeling of battle in a still image? I was watching that cool documentary on Napoleon and there were many paintings of battles that I had never seen before. They were the usual 19th century style, beautifully drawn and crafted, but lacking motion.

There is a lot I can do to solve this problem better. (hey yeah, more blood! that�s it!) I can�t think of an image that really does it well.

[SporQ]

you see that Napolean thing on PBS. if so, i just saw that too, pretty neat stuff.

oh, and your image is good, blah blah blah

i think that what i need to do is learn to loosen up more. your images are always so full of life and motion and that's what i want to learn to capture.

SporQ
p.s. get back to work slacker

[TweeK]

Nice drawing spooge, little bit crowded though, looks more like a eighties michael jackson concert

THe big barbarian guys looks like the one from the gladiator, but hey those look all alike

anywayz, cool stuff

greetz
Jeff

[CapnPyro]

reminds me of braveheart this one is pretty loose, which im sure helps in giving it motion. it's interesting to see how the large scottish looking fellow really catchs your eye by having just slightly more color and detail (also the soldier on the right), everything else in the picture is pretty drab. the tiny spots of color with the flags and sky really make an impact. and the sharp bright strokes on top of the loose drab strokes are a great effect for steel flashing, or whatever it's supposed to be

sort of thinking out loud hah, great picture, i like! sort of in your king arthur flags vein

Oh yah, and needs more blood!

-Capn

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http://home1.gte.net/capnpyro

[The Dude]

I Like it, great sense of action. I can almost hear the clash of steel on steel.


Question: How many layers was this done on if any.

[kimzoll]

Hey Spooge, can you tell us, the process of how you made this picture? inspiration, how long it took to make it. Did you start out with a pencil/ink sketch? what kind of tools you use? ect.
Thanks,
Kim Zoll
PS. I just put it up as my new wallpaper I hope it okay

[This message has been edited by kimzoll (edited December 08, 2000).]

[Chapel]

Cool picture spooge. It looks like one man against an army... does he not have any friends? I think the problem when you do a picture with loose forms is that the viewer will think that every stroke may represent something. So, with that said I think the strokes you used in the foreground shadows are a little too dominant and large. Unless that is supposed to be a figure (big blur..bottom..right of center) in which case he may need a little more form.

Does that make sense? It could just be me, but I think that blur breaks up the flow of the picture.

I like the picture though!

[Rhomb]

Very cool painting again. Altough, I found it little difficult to look at, I had to squint my eyes a bit. Maybe it's the lack of contrast in colors and overall darkness or it could as well be my crappy monitor at work. Still, it's right the barely visible forms in the same dark areas that makes your mind work and create the action. And the blood, it's not visible but I can still smell it there

-Ville

[Hazoc]

This is motion ?

[Frost]

Craig: Filters>Blur>Motion Blur =) That was a joke, but it would probably more or less work. You'd basically need to blur in the direction of the action on a per joint or character basis, where movements would appear more blurred closer to the camera and un-motion-blurred at the far end where action is less decypherable because of depth. Photoshop's motion blur is not a good solution, but a nice, rounder motion blur with a nice stretchy central mass probably exists... you'd want to simulate the camera exposure time as a still.

Very nice image - I'm as always a big fan of your quick but effective brushwork.

[Jezebel]

Last night in art class a guy brought in a sculpture he did of a hockey goalie defending the goal. It was basically just a few pieces of wire barely twisted together in few places, but for some reason you knew exactly what was happening in that sculpture and it portrayed a whole lot of movement. However, if you take his hockey goal away, you're not really sure what the piece is about anymore.

Your piece sorta reminds me of his sculpture in a way. You've got this bold figure in the front, which to me, is full of action. However your hockey goal is a bit confusing

I'm not quite sure what the guy in the front is doing, though I know he's doing something... maybe if you were to try popping out just one of two gestural figures from the crowd in the back. At this point I have a hard time telling the difference between the two sides. The guy in the front definitely seems separated from the rest but that makes me wonder why the guys in the back aren't attacking him.

I think that literally just a couple of new brush strokes could throw in the movement and action you're looking for. But then what do I know, for I will probably get stoned to death by everyone in the forum for critiquing your piece

-Beth

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Take off your clothes. It's OK - I'm an artist.

[url=http://div.dyndns.org/FOO!]http://div.dyndns.org/FOO![/url]

[Blitz]

I like the big guy in the middle left.
Hey I dont know if it would be that much more work or not but would it be posable for you to take a few shots of your pic in different stages. Just as something for people to look at and get an idea.

I can't remember if you did that on your website or not now that I think about it.

You know... The pic almost looks like Saving Privat Ryan vs the Germanians in Gladiator

I don't know. I do know it looks good.

Keep Posting yo,
Blitz.....Tightrope walker and artist extrordaner

[Jason Manley]

I agree with you craig that abstract shapes can contribute to a feel of motion. The hard part is also getting them to support space and reinforce the image structure...without that you may get a feel of motion but it will also be flat.

Selective rendering can help to clear up the space.

using the abstact lights and darks as not only figure field pattern for compositional purposes, but also as light in spaces falling on forms and or "destroying them" where you want movement will help deepen your space and still give you the feel you seek.

The hardest part for me when wanting to express any movement is gettin all three things...abstract shape for mood...abastract shape for space...and abstract shape that supports the action and doesnt stop it....it definitely is a balancing act.

Over rendering kills it too...but under rendering is just the same...it is about balancing ambiguity and rendering...and having one slightly dominate the other so that it feels finished.


jason

[immi]

Woah, love the battle scene. I think you did capture the feeling of battle. For me, the thing that is lacking in this image and your previous one is the use of really vivid colour. I don't even know whether i'm using the right terminology, but the colours seem a bit muted, the image seems to have a bit too many midtones, and not enough really clear areas of dark shadows and bold highlights. Uh, its probably just me.

[Solitaire]

spooge strikes back again - hell there's motion in it; indeed!
I was also reminded of the battle scene in Gladiator although the helmets of the spearmen doesn't look like romans.
I hope I am able to catch an atmospheare in that way some day (oh rhymey ).

[Capt.FlushGarden]

OOoo, I'm mr Craig Mullins! Look at mee, I'm the Greatest painter in the wooorrld!! Lalalallaaaa! dammit! hehe! Well, It's a bit blurry, and you've made some mistakes here and there, but if you practise some more, then you will become a pretty good painter, hehehehahahahaaaaa, just messing around with you, It's perfect, as usual...

[micke]

Kick-as stuff! I love it.
-Mikael

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-Mikael Noguchi-

Mikael's artwork

[Shadow-X-]

Hey, I love this, its so deep *single tear rolls down cheek*

is there by any chance a larger version of it? I would like to decorate my desktop with your blessings

[synj]

i dont know how anyone can even try to tear this apart. it's a wonderful image.

one thing i would like to see is a fire going on or something off-camera like you had in another painting. I love the glow of fire on everyone's side as they smash eachother. it is a great way to start the day.

-synj www.synj.net

[marc_taro]

Very very cool experiment. Love the organzied clutter. Kind of Bekinski-ish forms (sp?)

How loose is too loose - very interesting question. I'd love to see more like this.

How fast do you do these anyway? I guess 4 hours. (Anyone want to start a pool?)

marc_taro

[Snake Grunger]

Spooge - Is the lack of contrast and detail a good price for "more motion" in a painting? I mean, I can make out alot of objects in the image, such as several faces, helmets, arms, flags, etc.. but there is also alot of things that are totally blurred and impossible to make out. I'm not saying you cannot make clear things in your paintings, you have proven yourself to be able to, but I'm wondering if it's worth it to sacrifice such aspects of a painting that can make it genuine, in my opinion, of course.

PSSSSST: Not to sound lame or desperate for attention (hrmm), but please check your [email protected] email, I left you a message (small question) that I think would be embarassing to post here for everyone can read.

[AliasMoze]

Nice painting, Spooge.

I think Frazetts was pretty good at creating motion on a limited basis. By what muscles were flexing or relaxed, he was great at showing how the body was moving. He had/has great rhythm too. On a bigger scale, I dunno.

[RobT]

As always you never fail to impress.
Nice work indeed.

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RobT

www.gameart.com/mindstorm
All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.

[TheMilkMan]

Typical spooge genius touch to it...

[spooge demon]

I guess I should have said I am after the emotion rather than the motion. I am after a picture that would evoke the emotions of being in a battle. One thing I begrudgingly give saving private ryan is the battle sequence that was shot with damaged lenses, screwed up time, confusion, grainy contrast, confusion, etc. I think these devices were pretty effective. I would imagine that to be there you would not perceive things normally, if for no other reason than massive amounts of adrenaline making you temporarily insane.

I was after this feeling, but I will continue with other pics on this same problem. The lack of contrast, confusion, mixed battle lines, etc. were all intentional. My point about using more blood was ironic; it is just that sort of convention that I don�t want to use. Same with motion blur.

Action, motion, etc are all secondary to the feeling of being in this battle. They will help, but I don�t think they will get me where I want to go.

One idea is to go with the opposite direction with contrast and detail. Here I have muddied it together, but maybe the way to show the heightened senses is to makes a very high contrast image with extreme detail. Not detail that necessarily resolves into forms and materials, but odd things that you might notice while drugged. I will play with it

Hehe tweek, glad it looks like a concert. The situation is not much different. I should put a few nuns in there to really confuse things.

Dude, just one layer. I paint for a few minutes on a 2nd layer, then toggle it, looks good, I drop it and start a new layer. Sort of like an undo that goes beyond one or a few steps.

I have been harping about my shape design is not strong enough, and that I am inspired by Micke�s shapes, but here I did not want that. I tried to break as many rules as I could and still make it work.

Rhomb, it sounds like it is a little more successful for you, that is what I am after. The knife falls off camera and it hurts even more. I saw the Hitchcock�s The Birds again and there is no musical score. Very inspiring

Pierre, very nice ideas, thanks for adding them. I would love to see Frank Craig�s image. Wasn�t there an illustrator by that name? I suppose Picasso was after multiple viewpoints, or look at some of Hockney�s Polaroid montages.

Jezebel, you can critique me anytime, it is appreciated very much.

Jason, forgive my denseness, but i could not understand what you were saying. I think I do, but let me paraphrase. Too much definition of form will make things read, but that diminishes action. Too much abstraction is good for action, but flattens out the picture because there is no form. Thus a balance?

Yes Immi, it is very close value wise on purpose. I might go the other way next time, as I mentioned above.

Shadow, here�s a 6 meg uncompressed version. I will leave it there for a few days, but must delete soon

marc_taro, took about 1.5 hours. More than I allow for most of these things, but I was thinking too much, a very irritating habit.

[pierre]

Hey spooge,

Nice piece of work you have there. love the colors.

About the 19th century paintings depicting battle fields. There is one 19th century painter (I have only seen this one particular work of him), Frank Craig, that executed a painting of Jeanne d'arc and her french knights raging against the English bowmen on their destriers. That painting got motion (at least I think so, don't know, you may not agree). It is a very good piece of work. I think you will like it.

I will try to locate it for you if you want. If I can't find it, I will be happy to scan it in for you. Would be nice to see it with your eyes.

Again, I like this one very much. However I think it would also stand strong if there was some part of the painting that stood out a bit by a different kind of light peeping through the crowds, causing, maybe a slight change of color wherever it hit the targets.

Maybe it was your intention to make it very subtle in the contrast though. I think it is a challenge to keep the realism with an even lightsource everywhere.

---edit---The classical greeks became, very early, interested in how to include the factor of time in their artworks. I believe that one method (among several) to depict that was to imply motion by letting different individuals action represent a motion as if it were cause by one singel individual. I don't know though how much to realism that would add or more likely subract. It is very theathrical. But I think it is an interesting method, and one may be able to use same core of that idea along with realism, if possible. don't know, have tried, but without success I think. I actually did that in my knight painting----edit---
Pierre


[This message has been edited by pierre (edited December 08, 2000).]

[Blakk]

Yo! looks like a big mess. Be hard to tell whats going on.

[Shadowman]

Nice and loose. Looks like a good start. Because there isn't much contrast and definition it is hard to make out exactly whats going on.
I would love to see you finish this one.

[Snake Grunger]

I'm sure Craig Mullins .PSD files would go for a good price on eBay

[Bradford]

Awesome picture there, I really dig the dark mood it conveys. However one thing you might want to do is add a little more light detail to the left side, my eyes go straight for the right side (where you can visibly see things easier) - by merely my opinion

Bradford