[bj91x]

I made a little section in my web site, that will have my game ideas for exsisting games. I thought that it would be a great idea as a sample to show what I can do. I didn't put the game ideas for my own games, cuz I really don't want to show that to anyone until I become a game designer. Right now, I'm concentrating on a design for Tomb Raider. I've come up with so many great ideas, that I thought I might just make a very detailed explanation of the entire game. Yes, I'm not just going to put in one or two ideas. I'm going to explain the entire game. I don't mean level by level, from start to finish, but I'm talking about the entire gameplay that's well thought out. I was wondering, is it safe to put these up in my site? I was worried that some one might try to steal my ideas, so I am thinking about just not making a link to these ideas, and only giving the url to game industry people that might hire me. What should I do? I'm really secretive about these ideas. Also, will game companies read my ideas, or would they just ignore them cuz they think it won't be any good?

ps-Does anybody know Adrian Smith's email address or something?

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Baro Jung http://www.geocities.com/bj91x

[jHof]

Your prolly not gona get hired for "Cool ideas". They don't have a guy locked in a room who is made to think for 8 hours a day for cool ideas.

As for what I do when I have a interesting game idea. I have my "Game book". Just a simple note book with 100 or so pages. When I brain storm an idea I write as much as I can down about it. Then one day down the road(And you'll always keep adding to the book hopfully.) you may find yourself working for a game company. Then you'll learn how your sopuse to present your ideas to that company you work for. And then, if all goes well, they'll like your idea. Maybe even a chance to be the Project leader...


-Hof

[waylon]

Ok, here's the deal, as far as I see it.

Analyzing other peoples' games, in depth, is a great exercize. If you want to be a game designer, you have to do this A LOT, with EVERY game you play. You don't necessarily have to write it up, just be conscious of it as you play, and think about it when you're done. Take some notes as to what worked well so you can incorporate it into your own game.

*BUT* - this isn't going to get you a job as a game designer. Nearly every designer I know of has started in one of three ways.
1) Moved to design after making a name for themselves in the industry in another position (artist, coder, level designer, etc. Take American McGee for example, he started as a tech support guy at id, then did level design, now he just released "American McGee's Alice.)
2) (small minority) Transferred to the game industry after doing design for pen & paper games, whether role-playing games, battle sims, or whatnot.
3) Started their own game company with a bunch of other people who had no experience, and learned the hard way. (that's how I've gotten started.)

There's a lot more to being a game designer than just analyzing current games and coming up with some neat ideas. You also have to know how to manage people, assign tasks, etc etc. All in all, you need a LOT of experience actually working in the gaming field or designing some other sort of game if you hope to become lead designer at a major development house. Even if you are just as good as some of the developers out there, no one's going to take the risk of hiring someone without experience to lead a team of 5 or 6 or 20 other people.

Ok, I don't want to sound like I'm going on and on and dashing all your hopes. But the best way to become a game designer is NOT to apply for the job outright, it's to work your way up to it. (or, like me, you can get involved with a startup game company, where no one has any clue what's going on, and you can all learn together. This actually works pretty well, if you can find a good, dedicated team. And if you don't mind not making much money for a while.) But build some skills in other parts of the industry. Since you're here, I assume you have at least a passing interest in art. Good. Learn all you can about computer art. Have you ever played with designing levels for FPSs, like quake or halflife? If not, DO IT! Do you know how to program? If not, LEARN! You need to know a little of everything if you're going to be a designer, and the sooner you start learning, the better.

Ok, one final thing. You asked if it's safe to put your game ideas up on a web page? If they're GOOD ideas, which you're serious about getting made into games, then guard them with your LIFE. Don't show them to ANYONE without having them sign a non-disclosure agreement. Not only are you protecting yourself, that's the way the industry works, and you'll probably appear to be more professional.

Any other questions, feel free to ask.

[black_fish]

NOBODY in this industry can get hired on ideas alone. That just doesn't work that way. There are no game scriptwriters... yet.
So, don't bother trying.

[Flinthawk]

Guard your ideas with your life as already mentioned. Best thing to do is find articles on how to write up design proposals and give writing one of those a shot so you've got something presentable when the time comes.

I've talked to the designers here and it seems that basically every designer in the industry started as something else and it's not always because they necessarily wanted to...sometimes they just become designer by default, heh. One of our designers started out as a Production Artist doing the exact same job I'm doing now and working under the same Art Director I'm working for as well =) Our other designer was a programmer when he started into games but then fell into the design position.

After talking with them and various others here it seems that the best thing to do is to write up your ideas in a clear and concise(sp?) manner and have it ready to present when it comes time to start a new project. We have publishers that come in and look at the design docs that we have written up and waiting for money to back them. If I write up a decent proposal, have it checked over by one of the designers here and then add it to the stack there's a chance that a publisher will like the idea and want us to think about making it for them.

Of course, this will probably be different from company to company but the basics are: find out what it is that you are good at or enjoy doing (I started programming first but learned that I was a better artist...if you're not into either of those get into testing/QA) THEN get a job with a company and feel your way from there. Most companies look for input from their employees on stuff for their games so when a problem arises speak up and let them know what you think. Maybe you'll show them that you can come up with creative solutions to problems and that you could make a good designer.

In the meantime, you can also do what was also already mentioned and study other games...think about what you liked, think about what you didn't like and then think of what you'd do different or the same. I swear the designers here play games half the day but they're playing the game with the mindset that it could have some interesting control setup or a neat game feature or an intuitive interface. Studying what's been done helps solve problems at hand. I like to occasionally talk with the designers about the aspects of recent games that they liked or disliked and we'll get into dicussion over what worked and what didn't and where any differences may be.

Well, hope this info helps. I just wouldn't put your ideas for games up on your website. Keep them to yourself in a notebook. Yes, I too have a notebook and in it I ask myself questions about what to do about particular game aspects, write general concepts for games to go into detail at a later date, or I write ideas for many different stories that will go with the game (if it's a story based game). I also write down the stuff that I've studied about other games and why they worked or didn't work for me and how I'd make changes when I do it.

Ok, now I'll stop typing. This's pretty much all the info I've got for now since I've only gotten past the first step which is getting a job. Now I need to find a way to prove that I can be a designer...

Good luck

-Flinthawk

[This message has been edited by Flinthawk (edited December 08, 2000).]

[Light]

I'm not a game designer yet but I'm working on that.

Ideas are pretty worthless if they are not developed into concepts. Its no real value to take a game like Quake 3 and say Q4 will be better because you will make the graphics more realistic, better, and the net support more fluid UNLESS you can explain how. Its mostly likely the coders, artist, etc did the best they could the first time.

Most game companies do not want to hear about game ideas because there is a good chance they are making something in some way like what you are wanting to make -- so there is always the slim chance of law suits.

However, if you can present a game concept to a company then they might hire you.

A game concept goes beyond an idea in that it explains how the idea can be implemented technically, artistically, and financially. In other words putting a bunch of ideas in a paper about how to make quake better is not good but if you wrap it into a total concept (ie quake add-on pack) then it might be worth something.

It should be good practice to write game design documents for existing games but you should also write design documents for your own games.

There are a few ways to get started.

Most game companies are always seeking 3d artist. So master 3d and you'll probably get a job.

Also, companies will hire about anyone for game testing. So thats another possibility if you want to play games 24/7.

If you can make some great MODS for existing games then that will speak more then the best game design document you could write.

If you do decide to develope a game concept then you should present it in a concise game design document. Different people believe in writing the document in different ways if at all but it should sell the game, explain it to an average person, and explain it to someone who has to build it. This is a lot to put in a 1 document so I've found its best to write multiple documents depending on their purpose (ie a quick sheet so marketing people can get a good idea, a small document for the average person wanting to know about game, a more detailed document telling everything in game, etc).

Also, its best to present the document with as much extra stuff as you can. Present the document, concept sketches, test models, use an existing 3d game to make some level designs, background designs, etc. Build the best prototype with the existing tools/skills you have. If this sounds like a lot of work. It is.

Your gfx are good so that should help some.

Game designer is not going to be an easy job to get because almost anyone can do it with no skills -- but by the same token some of the most talented people are doing it.

If you go into the art side then try to present yourself as a specialist. Game companies are looking to fill specific jobs. If you present yourself as just a 2d/3d artist and another artist presents him/herself as a "animator" or a "concept artist" or "background artist" or "low poly modeler" then they will more then likely hire the other artist.

Lasstly, you'll need to send demo reels, documents, emails, etc to all game companies you think could be interested in your stuff or else they will never see it.

[gseegert]

Send me your ideas and I'll let you know what you should do.

[bj91x]

Okay, I really don't have time to read these, so I just skimmed through one or two responses, and they sound good. No, you're not discouraging me. I know that I can make great games, though you're right about managing the team, etc. I don't know how to do those. I know that I can't become a designer right away, that wasn't what I wasn't saying. Believe me, I really know the kind of things that are needed to be a designer, I just don't know how to do some of those needed things(like managing the entire team). I was just wondering if making a design diary would help me get into the industry. I really don't have a clue how to get in. If it helps out in even the slightest way, that's what I was wodering. Oops, I'll reply again some other time, cuz right now, I gotta go. I'll read the rest of the responses as soon as I get back. Btw, thanks for the helps, I really appreciate them.

[bj91x]

Okay, I just read all the stuff. Thanks, those are very useful. I guess "idea" isn't a very good word to use. The Tomb Raider thing I'm talking about, I'm going to go in full detail of every aspect of the gameplay, and I'm planning on making a level using my thoughts. I've also thought about getting into the industry as a tester. I thought this would be really good since I do know how to analize games. I can play a game, and after a while, I have things thought out that will make the game better, and I don't mean just one little idea. Would it help that I'm good at games? There are certain kinds of games that I'm not very good at(anything with aiming), but I'm really good at games in general. I don't know how to put this, but I am very creative with games and can come up with a lot of good strategies, etc. I'm some where in the top 100 in Tekken Tag Tournament in the US, according to my friend, and since fighting games require the most skills, I thought that I might be good as a tester. Ah, I'm not explaining very well. This is why I can't manage a team, my communication skill sucks. Anyway, thanks a lot. I'll try to rewrite some stuff, and gseegert, I will send you my idea for the Tomb Raider game once I have wrote them all down in an undestandable way. It will explain the control, and a level sample, along with an explanation of why this would work, etc. As you can probably tell right now, I'm not a very good writer. I'll email you the url as soon as I can.

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Baro Jung http://www.geocities.com/bj91x

[Blitz]

I am curently atending a computer graphics college. I am about to graduate in 5-6 months. I realy would like to get into the gaming industry and already know that it will take alot of work and time before I get a chance to design my own game. I would like to brake into the industry doing some sort of conceptual design or character design. I also know that this may take some doing to get into. Ill probably start off getting a job serving coffie and and skanning. hehe

This seemed like the thread to ask but what is the recomendation on starting your own little company to get expiriance. I have friends that would be interested and have often herd that it can be a good way to go.

Thanks

Blitz

[Light]

Being good at games is a definite plus but the job of a game tester is to find and document bugs. In other words you might test a fighting game and for some reason your fighter may suddenly disappear. As a game tester you must try to document exactly why this error occurs.

A list of all bugs are documented according to priority (example critical (crashs), important (affects game play), noticeable (can see it but doesnt do anything), barely noticeable (a bug thats hard to spot/find). This list is sent back to the coders to fix and when a new build is made then you get the game again.

Generally, there is a testing team with lead tester being the highest testing position.

You might get a lot of your ideas heard (esp if you work up to lead tester) but I doubt more then a few obvious/important ones would be implemented. So in other words you might get little things put in but dont expect anything major.

The real point of getting a game testing job is to get experience and the opportunity to move up. There are many paths you can move up. Example tester, lead tester, assistant producer, and then finally producer or lead game designer.

Hmm, just a few other notes here. Its going to be harder to sell your game if you call it "tomb raider thing" (unless Eidos likes it). You can always use Tomb Raider as a starting point but if you are going to change half the stuff in it then you really have a new game. And as far as writing goes: write the best you can but if you cant write it then illustrate it.