[samdragon]

I'm really trying to understand how to paint metals. I'm getting close but it's missing something. Here is a detail of the image I'm working on it. It's no where near being finished, but I thought this was a good point to stop and ask for some advice on the metal and reflection (stuff I never learned in school
If anyone else has time, I'm up for suggestions on how to render metal better.
Thanks

I did sample the colors from Spooges "angel" image. I jut couldn't resist those beautiful hues in the armor.

[Plop]

http://www.goodbrush.com/hirez_pgs/process/painting_lessons/lessons.htm

look at the bottom of the page.

[samdragon]

I totally forgot about those! Oh man, those are awesome! Thanks for reminding me, thats a big help!
I think my current rendering is too confusing and has too much info in it to be concieved as reflective metal. I think I'll do some B&w studies first to get the feel for it and then add some simple tones to it to see how that effects it.
thanks again for point out spooges stuff, My memory is failing me in my old age

[samdragon]

Heck yeah!
This is great info guys! keep it comming.
Thanks

[spooge demon]

??????????????????



More contrast. What is going on here? The arm is in the strangest place.

Paint at lower resolution at first, just trying to get the big shapes right. I see a lot of noodling here before your values are really nailed down.

[ShyGuy]

Sir Spooge

I cant seem to be able to download the
"the whole wad, zip" of the "Notes on John Singer Sargent - From various sources, really rare information from an American Master" wich I would love to.
Any info why, or is this link outdated ?

sincerely,
ShyGuy

[samdragon]

Your right, as usual Spooge. Thanks for putting the time in to help me out. I guess one of the problems is, I know this will be seen by alot of people I know personaly and I really want it to be nice, so I start "noodeling" things and then I look up and realize everything is off. I worked on it some more and I now see that arm is brighter than the armor! It's back to stage one again. I think I'll try this one in Photoshop instead of painter. Painter has too many nice little blending tools that are too tempting to use in the early stages.
Well, lets just say, I have finally learned my lesson. I have 4 weeks to crank out 4 more illustrations for my show and I have spent 2 days on this "thing" with no results. So let this be a lesson to everyone else! It's best to plan things and do studies before you try the final image. I think I even preached about that too.
Thanks Again Spooge, it seems that the metal wasn't the only thing wrong

[samdragon]

I can see why Spooge likes using photoshop so much now. For some reason (maybe for me) it's just quicker to work in. And you're forced to think more about colors.
anyway...here are some quick concepts of what I'm going for.
he's holding a wacom pen and using the tablet as a shield. All the tubes of paint and broken stuff are the things he has beaten in a great and loooonnggg struggle. bla bla bla...anyway..Once finished, this will be my BFA invitation and promotional card. I'm still up for comments, and I'll keep pushing this topic to the top until I get some, cause this will be a public piece, so I need as much feedback from the public as possible.
thanks

[Anthony]

Sam- You'll probably find that Painter's great for getting basic colors down, and texture down, and then it's better to switch to Photoshop. I like to use the simple water color brush in Painter then switch after the canvas is filled with at least SOME color.

------------------
-Anthony
Carpe Carpem

[samdragon]

I agree, that's how this one started, but with photoshop, i'm forced to think of layering colors and not using my blending brushes. I have a horrible habbit of wanting to blend colors. I still love painter, I use it everyday. But i do love photoshops painting modes. It's great for getting nice colors that look as if they are layered or transparent.

[gene_sequence]

sam: I like your piece because it's simple, yet evocative - well, it was especially so when it was just the guy - now it's more a piece about the life of a digital artist
As for the paiter/photoshop controversy- I like to work in the opposite way that Anthony does - I work things out in Photoshop in layers and using adjustment layers (that I haven't seen or figured out how to use in painter) and then move to Painter for texture (when required).
I think this piece has lots of potential, and I really like the brighter palette in the last update - but I think the composition would be more interesting if you didn't pile everything into the centre of the piece. It has a very central focus already with the figure, and everything sort of feels smashed up against him. it might maker better use of the whole "canvas" to give the art supplies more breadth across the page.

Coincidentally, someone (I think it was Mr. Buttle) suggested the value of doing lots of thumbnails before starting the sketch to play with the composition before commiting to colours and contrasts. Especially if it's for a client or public consumption!

Hope that is good advice.

- genesequence

[samdragon]

hehehe, yeah I did over 20 thumbs before I finally settled on this one. I'm still doing color roughs now that spooge slapped me back on track.
I agree with it being central, and I know the horrible things that are involved with it being there. So I am considering other placements. But I also have to consider that there will be text in this image as well..oh my brain hurts...
That's why I put that bright light at the bottom and I angled all the tools, so it would allow for eye movement, in and out of the center. I guess it's hard to tell in this stage,but in the final I'm pretty sure it will work, I'll also add more tubes and art supplies in the mud to scatter things out a bit like you suggested.
You where right in pointing that out though, about it being centered. I hope no one thinks I'm being to pushy, I am keeping track of the comments and putting them down. don't feel like I'm defending this image, it would be silly for me to defend something in such an early stage, I'm just trying to make sure everyone understands what I'm going for....
This image is as much about me personally as it is a promotional piece. I learned how to paint from studying spooge's images from way back in the AOL days, and listening to the folks in this forum. My college painting instructor was useless, no matter what I tried or asked, she couldn't help me. So I did it backwards, I learned how to paint with Photoshop and painter and then went to traditional. I do way more with digital though.
I like the second one too, but I want the mood of the first one. They both need more depth that's for sure, but I don't want to much information that I loose the whole focus and "story."
Thanks for the comments Gene, keep em coming. I'll post some more color roughs later.

[Matt Elder]

I like the way the image is coming along but I think I'm going to throw a spanner in the works. The thing that bothers me the most is the way his arm is resting on the pen nib. something just doesn't look right. Maybe it needs a little shadow line or something. Once you mentioned it, the wacom tablet as a shield is a good idea but it doesn't come across that way - it just seems like an extra accessory to the character.

------------------
See ya on da flip side
Matt
http://www.mattelder.com

[Liquid!]

[samdragon]

good points guys.
Great rendition Liquid! Metal is my enemy right now! I love the use of your warm colors
for the shiny metals!
thanks guys!
back to the drawing board