[rdgraffix]

This is the base sketch for a painting I'm going to try in Painter - using some of Veb's tips. (Yup, a totally different style yet again )
I know it's rough, but at this point it's just to set the structure for the painting.

Can anyone give me any help with construction, composition, proportions or anything that looks wrong? I always find my finished illustrations ruined by the basic construction, rather than technique - and I was hoping to get it right this time before I invest all that time in painting it.

Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.

------------------
- rowan dodds
RD Graffix

[This message has been edited by rdgraffix (edited September 29, 2000).]

[nil900]

impressing sketch! Awesome face!

critics: In my opinion the perspective (not the same as the body-they are drawn directly from front) of the wings looks strange. And the bottom of the sword -I don't know the English word- doesn't fit.

[Trance-R]

Agreed, you need to adjust the wing so that it doesn't look skewed. See how the body is facing 'away' from the view? And see how the wings are facing 'more' towards the viewer?
And the handle of the sword has perspective problems too. Good details on the armor and excellent shading though.

[rdgraffix]

Thanks for your replies nil900 and Trance-R. I've really been struggling with the perspective of the wings and the swords hilt.

I agree that they still don't look 'right'. They've been frustrating me for a while now, and I've hit a kind of block - no matter what I try it deosn't seem to fix it. Could anyone give me a hand solving the problem of how they should sit?

------------------
- rowan dodds
RD Graffix

[kig]

Try using rectangles to decide the wing perspective, ie. don't draw the wing straight up, but do a structural drawing of it first with a rectangle or some other 2d shape in perspective and then draw the wing on that to get it right. Or that's how I'd tackle the problem anyway.

..and where is his other hand going? I tend to imagine a shield or something on the other hand , well, maybe not, but now it looks kinda tense layout-wise. Might be just me.

Good sketch btw

[YourMum]

Hi! I dunno if this have said but the right wing is also a bit smaller than left... if look from front side. I really like shading/shadows in neck and head. Good.

-Juha-

[Rinaldo]

Hey Rowan.

I can see a few things that look wrong but I can't really verbalise them and I don't have any way of drawing anything at the moment.
The hilt looks out of perspective (as mentiond). The hold on the sword looks stange. I don't think someone would hold a sword like that, looks off balance to my eye. (could just be me).
The armor could do with some spicing up. If you have a look at actuial armor It's possible to get some good ideas. I see your armor as a metal chest. I can't see where the breastplate start or ends etc.

the only way I can explane what I'm talking about is to draw it I'll do something later maybe.


on another note I was looking at your site. and out of boredom I wandered over to the Bio. Found mention of Ken Wee and Harry Sleghekke. . You from Adelaide? How long ago were you doing Add Graph at Elizebeth?
I'm in my second year of the Advanced Deploma of Advertising and Graphic Design at Croyden (sp?).

Nice stuff on your site. where do you work btw.




[This message has been edited by Rinaldo (edited September 29, 2000).]

[rdgraffix]

Thanks for everyone's help with this. I'm going to give it another shot over the weekend, trying to use a few more construction lines and rectangles like kig suggested. - and make sure both the wings are the same size (ta YourMum )

What I think is causing my trouble is not being able to visualise how the wings should sit from that angle. I don't want to have flat looking wings in correct perspective, but rather have them curving out of his shoulderblades and around, so them have truer depth and form.

Rinaldo: If you get the chance to quickly sketch what you're talking about I'd really appreciate it. After a while you get too close to a drawing and grow blind to it's flaws.

I am in Adelaide, Rinaldo. I started the Advanced Deploma of etc. etc. etc. in... um, '97. I only got through about 1/2 a year of it before I managed to score a job at Young & Rubicam though. It's amazing - I learnt 20 times what I had at school in just those few months (and that scale basically repeated itself once I got in the workforce).

Now I'm a Studio Artist / Visualiser, and basically spend my days doing visuals or simple illustrations (what I post on this forum is basically personal stuff to help refine my skills)

I've been keeping an eye on your work lately, and you've been posting some damn good shit. Keep it up man (I wish I knew about this forum at TAFE - or maybe not, I never had a spare minute as it was). Pay heed to Ken and that slave driver Slaghekke , they know their shit.

------------------
- rowan dodds
RD Graffix

[Rinaldo]

I did a few scribbles but I'm doubtful as to their usefulness. I was just playing around, trying to draw what I was talking about. They�re pretty messy but anyway. I would draw the wings a lot bigger than you have. Even though it's unfeasible that wings of any size would enable flight I like to try and kid myself through rational thought wings also fold up, something that I don't really read from your version. I don't know what to do with the sword. It looks unnatural as is but there isn't anywhere else to put it. I did a few thumbs to see if another pose might make it all work better (New pose is the last thing you'd be wanting tho ).
I'm not sure is you did any thumbnails initially but I find it better to draw full figure and then crop. It's hard to fit all those wings in the space you've got and still make them visible.

Idunno I'm just blabbing aloud. there are so many cool things you can do with angel wings, the design and composition possibilities are vast.


I had Slaghekke for a few subjects he can draw like a mad man (a bit of a trace fan as you would expect from a visualiser) I got him to let me photocopy a pic of a car he did in Gouache. Been up on my wall for a while now We had a bit of a falling out over teaching methods but I have to agree that he is worth listening to.
And Ken just failed my girlfriend for Design 4 because she brought everything for moderating/reassessment a day late. "A lesson" I think he said. He wouldn't have done it if she wasn't any good. But the hot shots need to learn that late is dead .
I'm not surprised that you got a job after 6 months. Most of the good Elizabeth students are gone by about second year. That course is totally industry based in that sense. The real learning starts when you get the job, the rest is just there to get it in the first place.
At least on the job there isn't any finished art/Paste up



[This message has been edited by Rinaldo (edited September 30, 2000).]

[Liquid!]

RINALDO:

Great sketches! There's alot of nice gesture there...

-chris

[rdgraffix]

Thanks Rinaldo, those sketches are fantastic!
The top left one shows perfectly the folding I was having such trouble with. I'd given it another shot over the weekend myself but I haven't quite got it yet. Hopefully I'll be able to combine what I've tried so far with what you've shown me and finally get it right.

One of my problems is the fact that I've been trying not to fold the rear wing too much, to keep that nice feathery background radiating from the focal point of the actual figure. Unfortunately, it's not working , so I might have to lose some of the effect to get it looking realistic - hopefully I'll be able to strike a balance between the two.

Thanks for those sketches, they're fantastic! -just what I need.

That's a bummer about your girlfriend, Ken can be pretty steep that way. I guess it's all just a learning experience, but failing her is pretty heavy.

Anyway, I'll show you what I come up with when I'm finally happy with it. Cheers mate.

------------------
- rowan dodds
RD Graffix

[Rinaldo]

Glad to be of service

The fail wasn't a clear cut fail, she can do the next design subject, and if she does well in it then he says he'll change the fail to a pass. if not then it stays. He's pretty harsh but not a monster The whole thing caused a big fuss tho.

Chris-Thanks