[Danny]

Hey everybody, I figure it's about time for a decent Digital Art related FAQ for this forum. I know it's been discussed numerous times in the past and nothing ever happened. So I decided to just start writing. I've written a draft so far but before I run through it to wrap it up, I'd like to hear from you all what kind of questions you think should be answered. So let's hear it..

Dhabih, if you're reading this.. What's your take on this?


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[email protected]

Trust in Trance

[Frost]

Hey Dan,

I guess just letting the new people coming in to understand the following:

- No matter how exciting it is to be joining the best digital art forum around, please try to stay relevant by asking real, pertinent questions.

- If you're thinking about starting a new thread, please make it worthwhile. First check if your question has already been asked and answered in the near-one-year's history of these forums using the handy search engine (Search Engine).

- On the topic of starting new threads, please don't start threads containing 5-minute scribbles just because you need to show it off. Instead, please start a thread containing a REAL image that you put a lot of effort into. We are all quite serious and knowledgeable as a community here to be helpful to you if you are serious about your work and exploration of your own skills. We have ALL seen scribbles, and there is no pleasure in seeing them or little to be commented on.

- Don't come in here thinking you're the best and above everyone else. This forum features some of the world's great professional artists. Keep in mind that you're probably NOT the best, and that everyone here is here to learn from others, as learning art and drawing is a life-long search for perfection, which we never achieve.

Also, if we could build a small database of links to people's websites where they can find tutorials, etc., that might illiminate some of those requests, as people seem to be too lazy to look up the people's profiles (!). Perhaps some database type html table that contains the artists websites, with checkbox columns depicting what you will find on that site; art, tutorials, steps, etc.

Just a few ideas.
Thanks Dan. =)

[Nomadik]

Oh, and I was gonna ask how many licks it takes to get to the center of a tootsie roll tootsie pop.. No, really.. Maybe in the faq we could have a list of different techniques done to acheive certain effects such as shading/lighting, textures, and so forth..
-Jesse

[Muzman]

Hey Dan. I'll save you a pile of trouble (although it sounds like it's too late) and tell you it's in the works already. The questions have been collated, the research has been done, the links have been collected. I admit I've been a bit slow putting it together (started it nigh on two weeks ago. there's a lotta links though) and I didn't tell anyone, appart from Dhabih, because I thought the same as you; that the FAQ has been largely ignored and the best way to approach it was simply for someone to get it done.

Anyway, no doubt something will be worked out.

[Danny]

Thanks Frost.. those are some excellent points which definately are important to be pointed out. The 15 second scribble trend is driving me (and I'm sure a lot of others as well) crazy.. :P

Nomadik, as nice as that sounds, it probably is a bit beyond the scope of a FAQ and probably is better suited for tutorials. However that FAQ could be used to link towards those tutorials I'm sure..

Muzman, hey.. how about that.. Good to finally see some effort being poured into it. I'll mail you what I've written so far (so that it'll atleast serve some purpose) and leave it up to you.


that's it..



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[email protected]

Trust in Trance

[waylon]

The ones that bug me are the "Hi, I just got photoshop, how do I draw like this Sijun guy" threads... It would be nice to have one or two beginner tutorials posted in the FAQs, by such esteemed artists as Fred and Spooge, that we can refer newbies to. So I guess this is kind of what Nomadik was saying, but on a smaller scale.

[AprilYSH]

waylon, why not point them to sijun's tutorial if that's what they came for? 8D by the way, i think his tute (singular *sob*) is excellent for beginners. fred's and craig's tutes still kinda make my eyes glaze and i think i'm just a day or so older than a beginner...

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April http://april.cjb.net

[newt]

Don't forget -

What's a Wacom tablet? How can I get one? Why do I have to pay $300 f@$%ing dollars for one? Arrgh!

and

What sort of markers do you use? Where can I get some? $5.95 for a f#@%ing marker what are you kidding me? Will they help me get women?

[Chapel]

I myself am kinda tired of the "hi my name is.... I've been reading the forum for a long time, but never post... I'll post a picture in 8 months..." threads. This is a Digital Art forum.. not an AA meeting.

[Frost]

Chapel: Hahaha... indeed. =)

[Dhabih]

I reckon getting a FAQ up is essential to these forums. Someone e-mailed me offereing to compile one, but i havent heard back in forever. When i get a chance i'll give it a shot. But it may take sometime....

-dhab

[Kebab]

I think a section where all tutorials can be stored and listed would be great. It�s very fun to read about other peoples techniques and ways of thinking when making art.

(maybe i�ve missed something and there�s already something like this coming along, just don�t bite my head of for this)

[ceenda]

One of the problems is that lot's of newbies simply won't read the FAQ. Nope, not even if you have flashing lights and offer them free sweets.

This goes back to the moderators debate, the need for a group of well respected contributors to help Dhabih moderate the forum and just simply delete pointless postings.


[This message has been edited by ceenda (edited September 27, 2000).]

[Svanur]

How about that the most prominent artists in this forum contribute to a tutorial section , where newbies can read the tutorials without the tutorials getting lost in the sea of yesterdays post. There could also be some room for people to comment on the tutorial itself. The best example of what I am thinking of is something like FARP.
http://elfwood.lysator.liu.se/farp/index.html

[wigin]

guys if all those newbie question bother you just dont answer them,,, hes gonna get the point....

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Webpage sucks working on it now .. nothing is there sooo be patient i will have a pic up soon

www.Wigindesign.com

[Danny]

Wigin,

it's not necesarily just about that. The biggest problem is that they are flooding the board and washing out all threads, including the really worthwhile ones. Not everybody has the opertunity to check in 3-5 times a day and keep on top of the avalange of 15 second newbie scribbles.

And as Chapel very nicely pointed out, this is a DIGITAL art forum. Not a damn conventional one. The amount of scanned in pencil sketches, marker renderings etc. (no matter how nice they might be) have been depressing. Perhaps to a lot of you this sounds like whining, but I'm here for the Digital part. Running your pencil sketch through a scanner doesn't automatically qualify it as a digital creation. If I want to see conventional stuff I'm better off someplace else. :/


Dhabih, wouldn't that someone be Muzman? If so, Hey Muzman, get a move on!!

As Loki would say.. Aah.. I haven't had my caffeine/nicotine today.. but wait a minute.. I don't smoke or drink coffee.. hmm..

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[email protected]

Trust in Trance

[This message has been edited by Danny (edited September 27, 2000).]

[derPunkt]

I agree,
I stopped posting here, commenting, and even visiting daily bcoz of the everyday shitty threads. Haven't seen a decen't picture for months (I maybe missed it due to those "How do I..." threads).
So, Dan, I am right behind you, and I support the idea.

dP

[yoszi]

I dont agree, I come here mostly to see examples of what one should not do, it's an important part of learning.

[This message has been edited by yoszi (edited September 28, 2000).]

[Nex]

quote:

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derPunkt: I agree,
I stopped posting here, commenting, and even visiting daily bcoz of the everyday shitty threads.

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every artists started out at some time. And a lot of artist that consider themselves as being better than the scribbling masses would not go wrong if they had asked this or that question too, so they would know that they still have a lot of room to improve and that their work is not soo good as they think it is.

[Joachim]

Danny, to be honest, what you posted about the digital art is on thing I really disagree about. As the impression I got, more or less everybody else here is here for the art, not what kind of medium it is in. And, personally, if the rule in this forum is just digital art, you can for sure kiss me goodbye. Because that is just way too narrow-minded for me.
What makes a sketch better or worse just because it's done with a wacom pen instead of a regular one ? Or if the painting is done with photoshop or acrylics. The most important thing is if it's good or bad, has the artist understood the basics, etc.... The rest is pure taste.. there are much more important things to worry about in art than what medium it is in, which is something you should be more concerned about as well as anybody else (me included). Peronally I sketch my drawings on paper for a purpose, I prefer to be better at doing paper drawing since it demands less trial and error, which also makes it easier to draw, no matter what medium.

Sorry for that ourburst, I really don't mean to be an ass. I like you danny, but that statement just provoked me a bit too much.
no hard feelings

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Joachim's Place

[FaithInChaos]

this is my question:
if i masturbate at a rate of 200 beats/minute and it takes my computer 15 seconds to cycle through one of 1500 images of porn...how many beats will i have masturbated after looking at 650 images of pornography?

[yoszi]

the way I see it. You'll get best results using both traditional and digital. With pencil or markers you have better control over shape, digital gives you better control over color, lightning. Designing a shape with a tablet is unnatural. Therefore if you're only into digital you're cutting yourself short.

FaithInChaos: 666

[Tinusch]

32,500

[Rinaldo]

I'm with Joachim 100%

Everthing he said. I was never aware that there was any restriction on content to be digital. If there are then fine but I don't think the forum would be the same if every image has to be digital. I certanly wouldn't be spending so much time on here if that were the case.

Not a flame, but an issue I feel strongly about.

[Muzman]

that wasn't a flame, but I'm quite sure Faithinchaos' genitals will be aflame in under 5 minutes. We made need him when the power goes out and there are no matches in the place.

And the FAQ is comeing! Really! (*cringes*)
I suspect it will not be what many want or expect. In the past the discussions about it have suggested a kind of perfect handbook for everything so a new member can drop straight in as if they've been here all along and not bug people with old questions and topics (why this bugs people will always be beyond me; but it bugging people is pretty much a fixture of western society as far as I can tell.)
That kind of document is simply not going to happen, particularly not after only a year. (and besides; I don't believe text based communication or language allows for it.) The FAQ must represent the forum's life over this time as generally and with as little slant as possible. Since the forces of digital purism have not converted Dhabih, amassed an army and driven out the infidels and their scanners and graphite stained fingers (-this is attempted humour-), this is still just a debate and Sijun is still a forum with a broader scope. The FAQ must reflect that.

[Danny]

Joachim,

there wasn't any intention of provocation on my behalf. If that's how it reflected onto you, then I apologize.
However, I don't think my preference for a degree of categorization or better yet, restraint has anything to do with narrow mindedness. Don't get me wrong, my wings of interest are spread widely over the art world (I still hate that word ). Sketching is high up on my list of regard. My bookcases are for 99% filled with books on conventional art rather than digital.

Yours and Micke's model sketches are catalogued onto my HD. I appreciate them for what they are. SKETCHES. I appreciate that besides the basic skills needed to produce these sketches they require an additional set of skills unique to the individual medium. Skills that turn a moderate sketch into an illusion of life (to borrow from the Disney vocabulary). These additional skills are needed and are diffirent with *every* form of self expression to elevate above the majority of average work done in a given medium. This is the part I'm personally most interested in.
You ask what makes a sketch better or worse, the medium or the basics. There's no point in argueing about the necessity of the basics. I assumed we all understood that and didn't need re-itteration. In my weariness about the boring endlessness of this point I guess I didn't make it clear enough in my earlier post about the obviousness of this. What I will answer you is this..
I don't come to this forum to learn the basics of general drawing, there are other much better sources available for that. Your sketch class being a prime example. I come here to learn what makes one a good DIGITAL artist. What makes a good digital sketch, painting, rendering. What tricks can be utilized digitally. How to maximize the advantages the digital medium has to offer. How to deal with the disadvantages the digital medium carries with it.. etc. etc. This is what lured me to the forum in the first place. "A Digital Art forum with quality artists around. Where we can learn from eachother by sharing"

In one of the previous debates on wheter or not this forum was to be split up in multiple sections I voted for it to remain in one piece in the hope that the nice atmosphere this forum has would stay in tact. I don't mind the odd post here and there containing several sketches, or marker renderings. VortX's posts for instance have been of great joy. This is part of the charm the forum has. However I do get annoyed during those periods when conventional posts make up 90% of the threads. My earlier call for a better organized restraint on posting habits came from the growing awareness that a large part of subscribers (a lot of them newbies) seem to be completely ignoring the digital aspect. In other words, it seems as if the percentage of conventional posts is rising disproportionately in relation to that of the digital works being posted. If the general consensus appears to be that this is not even worth some action or at the very least consideration, then that's fine, I respect that. However perhaps Dhabih would have to be requested to undertake some renaming action so I won't have to keep offering my apologies for totally misinterpreting the name of this forum everytime similar threads to this one come up.

Joachim, no hard feelings at all. I respect your point of view, your art and you as a person. I can only hope you can grant me the same.



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[email protected]

Trust in Trance

[Redbeard]

quote:

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Originally posted by ceenda:
One of the problems is that lot's of newbies [b]simply won't read the FAQ. Nope, not even if you have flashing lights and offer them free sweets.

This goes back to the moderators debate, the need for a group of well respected contributors to help Dhabih moderate the forum and just simply delete pointless postings.


[This message has been edited by ceenda (edited September 27, 2000).][/B]

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Perhaps the FAQ should be included in the registration email... BEFORE your password. If they ignore it after that, we (well, you guys anyway, I normally don't post) can ignore them. If they don't listen to the forum rules, the forum doesn't listen to them.

[Joachim]

ofh, we are working very late. and now my machine is rendering lightmaps, so it's time for some writing

Danny, nice answered. I understand your point very well. And, just to say it, I have great respect for you
Oh well, to my point. First of, I think the reason for this forum to be so good, is that there's no rules for what art people should post, it gives a bigger community. People will loose interest if it's being focused on just one thing. And, I don't think that this forum is just about learning, but also to enjoy every other artists work, no matter what medium (and people have different taste). And, let's say all those 5 min. not very good paper sketches would have not been acceptable, just to filter out the worst crap being posted, it would probably not help. There's so many people and always a newbie, so it will always be posted things that ain't worth much attention. And also, SO many people at this forum lacks so much at the basic skills like anatomy and all th other areas that is needed to make a good illustration, and this is not being thought by going straight to digital. Infact, that just shows people a wrong place to start that makes it easier to make in fancy but still without knowing that it takes more to become a good artist.
One other thing, I know you agree even though you didn't wrote that. This forum should be for learning digital painting, yes. But you can learn a lot from traditional painting to be used in didital. Since digital isn't about different techniques on how to draw different things, but all about knowledge in art as a general thing. ....I don't know why I said this, because I know you understand and agree to this.
For me personally, I have lately stopped to care about brushes, techniques, etc...and focused totally on trying to understand the basics more, as I see that artists like spooge can draw things veery simple and quick, and still he can make it seem like there's more details in the pic than what is actually drawn. And, I know that has nothing to do weither it's digital or not, but just because he has a deeply understanding on how things work.
Personally I think this forum is an excellent way to learn about drawing, just as any other book or place...just because there's gathered so many talented people in one place. And, I have never had such a quick progress in learning as I have had since I found this place, because I've met so many people with different skills in different areas that shows totally different ways of thinking.

Uhm, I think we agree on all of this, but I guess we just like to exploit this forum in different ways.
Oh well, let's put down the battle axes Instead, why don't you come to norway a few days with Tim and have a few beers with us

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Joachim's Place

[wigin]

Danny : for some reason i disagree with you .. But i d see your point that this is a digital art forum and it should be mostly digital stuff in here. A simple solution to this would be a name change of the forum to " ART FORUM" lol... well this is not to be taken seriously but i bet if the name would change that no one would have this argument.

Anyways to get to the point, From what i am readin from your post DAnny is that you dont want "newbies" to post their simple drawings adn you would rather see the PRO's post their images... well thats what im getting out of your post.. Also i am not a digital artist though i would LOVE to be able to get the $ for photoshop and to buy a watcom table. So in the mean time i study what other digital artists do and it inspires me for my pencil work. And then if im proud of the drawing i would post...

But i do agree with you that i dont want to see any crappy 15 secs or even and 40 hours sketches that dont look good and cant really make out what it is and looks like a 3 year old can draw better..

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Webpage sucks working on it now .. nothing is there sooo be patient i will have a pic up soon

www.Wigindesign.com

[Transcendence]

here's my question....where did all the newbies come from? every time I check back here there are new newbies. stop the madness.