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Author   Topic : "Challenge: Fix the ANATOMY."
Liquid!
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Joined: 24 Sep 2000
Posts: 435
Location: Los Angeles, California

PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2000 8:56 pm     Reply with quote
Hey! Here's sketch I did to help KEBAB with his Gladiator pic. However, I quickly ran into trouble myself trying to finish the extended arm. Additionally, the head, upper torso, and legs (especially leg/body connection) could use a bit of help. You get the idea...

Anyone out there want to give it a shot?




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Liquid!

[This message has been edited by Liquid! (edited September 26, 2000).]
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burn0ut
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Joined: 18 Apr 2000
Posts: 1645
Location: california

PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2000 9:20 pm     Reply with quote
Hot damn liquid! nice to see some of your very own work! and in a non comic coloring way really kick ass.

and what program did you use for this chris? it looks like painter to me , i cant ever get colors mixed like that in photoshop

ill try it out tomarrow altho someone will prolly do somethin before me


good job man!


[This message has been edited by burn0ut (edited September 26, 2000).]
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Isric
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Joined: 23 Jul 2000
Posts: 1200
Location: Calgary AB

PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2000 9:26 pm     Reply with quote
First off, Killer job. literally. Six people walked by my computer and they're all dead. Thank goodness I've been exposed to the joys of Liquid! Before.

Here's my take on it. If anyone can do better, please please do so, I don't want to embarass myself. This is simply what i think feels right
Here you go, do your thing
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Kebab
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Joined: 08 May 2000
Posts: 75
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2000 11:09 pm     Reply with quote
Taht�s pretty fucki�n awesome, i�think i�m going to trash that gladiator pic (or at least leave the CRAP as it is) and start on something new and more exiting.
I guess i should get myself a good anatomy book (any recomendatons (and something i can get my hands on it here in sweden)), I bought myself both a book about Bisley and one about Frazetta, mainly to study composition but also light (which is so fucking hard to get right).
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Rinaldo
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Joined: 09 Jun 2000
Posts: 1367
Location: Adelaide, Australia

PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2000 11:14 pm     Reply with quote
Here's my shot at it.



Ignore the arm I have no idea how to make it connect properly. an' I stuffed up your nice rendering.
Haven't done any pure wacom stuff in a while so I'm a bit rusty.

Hope it helps

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kig
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2000 11:26 pm     Reply with quote
Anatomy quickie, put muscles on bones and bones where they should be
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Kebab
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2000 12:20 am     Reply with quote
Yeah, hehe! I�ll try that
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CapnPyro
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Joined: 25 Mar 2000
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2000 12:35 am     Reply with quote
I added his butt, toned down his leg a little and drew in the head. I like the arm where its going, so i just added the forearm a bit.



-CapnPyro-

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MonkeyBoy
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Joined: 21 Sep 2000
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2000 5:46 am     Reply with quote
Erg..never mind.

[This message has been edited by MonkeyBoy (edited September 27, 2000).]
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The Dude
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Joined: 22 Feb 2000
Posts: 307
Location: Michigan, USA

PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2000 6:42 am     Reply with quote
Don't do anything naughty when you are feeling
the area where your legs connect to your body.
ha hah ah....

That looks really nice - the colors, the muscle
tone, the style.

So did you use painter?

| The.Dude |
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Fred Flick Stone
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Joined: 12 Apr 2000
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2000 10:01 am     Reply with quote



Remember, it isn't the chest muscles holding up the figure, it is the spine, the back that is doing the work. THe chest muscles are going to roll with the pose. THe arm you guys are drawing is too complex to begin with. Get the simple shapes first, learn the muscle mass groups, then add all the Bisley-esk muscles on top of that. Get the sweep of the form, then the big masses, then details.

You guys are taking this in the wrong direction by doing the details first, and not working out the big gestural shape.

Life drawing will cure this ailment, and studying more than just Frazetta to learn anatomy. He took many liberties cause he knew anatomy like the back of his hand.

Good luck

[This message has been edited by Fred Flick Stone (edited September 27, 2000).]
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Muzman
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Joined: 12 Jan 2000
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2000 10:20 am     Reply with quote
There really isn't much in the way of muscles covering the oblique ribs below the pecs. They are long and flat muscles running along the ribs, even in the most developed people. As much variety as there is in people I don't think you would get that tension and 'toothy' definition below a raised arm.

(comments from the super hack)

looks cool though. Beyond that I'll (wisely)leave it to fred
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Tinusch
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2000 10:59 am     Reply with quote
Here's my attempt

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CapnPyro
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Joined: 25 Mar 2000
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Location: Thousand Oaks, CA

PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2000 2:23 pm     Reply with quote
Damn, Tinusch just owned us all.
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fragamite
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Joined: 26 Oct 1999
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Location: Stockholm, Sweden

PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2000 3:33 pm     Reply with quote
fred for president!
fred: do you have any more sketches like that? they're just SO helpfull!! spending all my practising time trying to figure out ("figure" out huhuhu) how the hell the body actually works.. your amazing drawing just gave me a ton of "aha -wow!" -eperiences

THANKS!!!!!
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Frank
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2000 3:59 pm     Reply with quote
hrm. I just recieved my loomis books today, so I'm really excited about scanning some stuff and sharing it with everyone. I remembered there was a similar pose in the figure book that I ordered. Here it is. If there's anyone to learn from it's Loomis (or Fred, heh.)
Anyway, here it is.
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burn0ut
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Joined: 18 Apr 2000
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Location: california

PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2000 4:31 pm     Reply with quote
scan the whole book for us frank

nice stuff people.
/me saves fred's sketch.... :P
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Sterlin
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2000 5:42 pm     Reply with quote
Loomis's books are great, but I was told they were not in print Fred how did you get them?
I have two of his old Walter Foster books that is all I could find it's a start I guest. I had my local library put in a loan request from other libraries because they did not have any of his books. How much were those books and where did you get them from Fred?
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CapnPyro
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Joined: 25 Mar 2000
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Location: Thousand Oaks, CA

PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2000 6:26 pm     Reply with quote
I was thinking it over, and while fred's pose may be more anatomically correct, it's certainly less dynamic and interesting, I'd rather fudge anatomy to make things more intersting for the viewer. Huge lats included.

-CapnPyro-

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http://home1.gte.net/capnpyro
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Liquid!
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Joined: 24 Sep 2000
Posts: 435
Location: Los Angeles, California

PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2000 6:26 pm     Reply with quote
Thanks for all the help guys! I'm going to fix all the stuff using your suggestions and repost the 'fixed' version. Although I'm not sure what to make of pikachu suggestively standing in front of a man's crotch...

BURNOUT: No Painter. It was all done in Photoshop. Actually this is the first piece I ever sketched straight in Photoshop, rather than scanning pencils and using them to work from. I was actually sort of suprised how close you can get to the 'pencil' look and feel. Learn something new everyday.


KEBAB: I wouldn't give up on it. I personally find that if I stick with one piece and try to work all the bugs out, I generally learn the most, even tough its pretty boring to 're-do' the same piece 6 times.

FRED/RINALDO/CAPN: Thanks for the input! Let me know if I catch everything on the second time around. Not to mention adding a 'butt' to the guy...

MUZ: I generally really like to emphasize/exagerate tone and musclelature. Although I realize that all muscles aren't flexed at all times, its somewhat of a stylistic preference for myself. However, I do realize that its technically wrong.

Again, thanks for all the useful feedback! I'll add the arm, head, and legs on the second re-do. I just gotta finish all my deadlines first...

...back to work. Again.

-chris



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CapnPyro
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2000 6:34 pm     Reply with quote
quote
Quote:
Although I realize that all muscles aren't flexed at all times, its somewhat of a stylistic preference for myself. However, I do realize that its technically wrong.


ha, yah I guess it's the comic book style in us

-Capn

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http://home1.gte.net/capnpyro
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Liquid!
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2000 6:59 pm     Reply with quote
CAPN: I just saw your site an noticed the KIM SMITH references... Do you have any reference shots of her?!? She rules!



chris
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CapnPyro
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2000 8:14 pm     Reply with quote
Oh hell yah I do. She's gorgeous, I have soo many pictures of her, drop an email addy in here, or email me from my site and Ill send you a zip of a bunch of uh.. reference pics

-Capn

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HumanClay
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2000 11:45 pm     Reply with quote
Here's my attempt.. I got frustrated:




/hc
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Fred Flick Stone
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2000 8:32 am     Reply with quote
The pose is very non dynamic, I am just stating the muscles in their location, there are certain root muscles you should start with.

If I had my way, I wouldn't use this pose at all and go for something more dynamic than this. I just don't want to break stride, and help the underlying drawing as it is...
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Chapel
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2000 8:39 am     Reply with quote
Liquid! I did a portrait of Kim Smith on my site. Well, it was supposed to be her.

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Chapel
- Will Draw for Food - http://liquid2k.net/kaiju/

[This message has been edited by Chapel (edited September 28, 2000).]
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Liquid!
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2000 9:03 am     Reply with quote
quote:
Originally posted by Fred Flick Stone:
The pose is very non dynamic, I am just stating the muscles in their location, there are certain root muscles you should start with.

If I had my way, I wouldn't use this pose at all and go for something more dynamic than this. I just don't want to break stride, and help the underlying drawing as it is...




Fully understood. As mentioned in my inital post this was to help KEBAB with a pose in a pic he was doing. I tweaked his initial layout just slightly to try to add some motion to it, however, I ran into enough trouble spots, that I think it would be worthwhile to do the full figure for me to iron the bugs out in my own drawing..

CHAPEL: Saw the KIM SMITH pencil drawing you did! Looks very nice!

-chris
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Fred Flick Stone
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2000 9:49 am     Reply with quote


I did a few of these just now, took about five minutes to take a crack at the pose. Now with these thumbnails, I would cut into, or crop out selections of the poses, or fit them into a bigger composition or whatever.

The point here is not to go with the first image you conceive, but take it in a few directions, you may find something more appealing or more useful to your situation.

An up shot of a dude holding an axe over his head is dynamic to a certain degree, but may not be the most effective approach. With the original art that started this thread, the up shot is cool, but the arm holding the axe is too stiff, and too one dimensional, and could use some flow to it. But without the proper understanding of anatomy, it might end up looking contrived, stiff, or out of place completely...

Thumbs are the best way to resolve all these issues. Make hundreds of these in your sketch books and pick and pull from them poses you want to inject into illustrations, or find one that is totally inspiring and develop it to a solid finish...have fun most of all, but don't pick something that is going to tax you the artist, if you haven't conquered that subject, or angle before. Work all those issues out ahead of time and your image will practically paint itself...
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poxen
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2000 9:59 am     Reply with quote
Frank! the Book, loomis! what kinda art book is it?
where can i get it?

[email protected]
/poxen
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Isric
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Joined: 23 Jul 2000
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2000 12:38 pm     Reply with quote
Yes thank you very much, you are a joy to read.
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