[dr . bang]

Hey everyone, i'm currently in the last grade in high school right now and i'm really confuse about what field i'm gonna choose for my future. I have three things in my mind right now they are:

1.Industrial Design
2.Graphics Design
3.Web Design
3.Digital Art (for movie/game company and stuff)

My question is for you to tell me the pro and cons (good things and bad things) about these job.

Thanks.

[Plop]

Rule out webdesign, unless you like to indure hours of bitching and moaning from clients while doing tedious work and then redoing it again.

[Plop]

Did i mention it doesn't pay much either?

[Spitfire]

Dont follow an edu in webdesign - you can easily teach that yourself and its a sector in which the borders move and deform every week. Your safest bet is graphic design which will teach you the basics for allmost all graphic subsectors.

[dr . bang]

Thanks for replying , i'm still wondering though, web client is same as movie client, or industrial client, they're all bitchy and stuff, i remmebered some of Spooge's art work got turned down by the art/movie director....i guess thats life, no job is easy......damn client, they know shit.

[dr . bang]

Thanks Spitfire, that was in my mind too, i think i'm not gonna go to college and learn web designing.....its self taught course.

[extralobe]

Being a webdesigner-for-pay royally sucks. Designing a home page can be great fun; and designing one for a client can be fun if you and they happen to share a vision.

The problem is that the people who commision/buy websites are clueless about the web, about design, about people for the most part.. and they never understand how much time it takes. "tweak this, change that".. then they'll tell you something about that graphic you spent HOURS on "isn't quite right.." and suggests you replace it with something he saw on his friend's page.. some four color animated gif or something.

It really is hell. I can't speak for any of the others from experience, but I assume art directors at least have an appreciation for good art and design, that they have a vision that you can at least try to share..

ok, that's enough ranting for now.
(can you tell i hate my clients?)

[Rinaldo]

I hear a lot of complaining about clients with web design. Get over it. Clients are clients. Period. Design on the web is the dame as design in print. It pays well if you are good and badly if you are not.
The thing that really defines a good designer is their ability to interface with the client. There is no ego in design. Sure, you can run an exclusive design business and do some really top stuff. Get clients to come to you who like your work and have a job that is suited to it. But that is very hard to do in terms of initial cash flow. Understand that the designer in the purest sense is merely a cog in the money making machine. Your design has to make money. There is no such thing as good design as such. There is only successful design.
In a big agency you are going to be working with marketing staff who are going to find out what colours your target demographic/audience are going to like. They will do surveys. Look at research. Look through piles of statistics. Calculate, cross-reference. All to find out what is going to make the difference. The designer cannot just go and say �well screw yous' all I like this colour today�.
True, clients don�t know what they are on about all the time. But sometimes they have a whole lot more of an idea than the designer. And I would wager that there are just as many designers who haven�t got a clue about what they are doing and what effect it is going to have on their client, as there are clients who are confused. If you as the designer think that your client is wrong then CONVINCE them that you are right. Do this by showing them why your design is going to make them more money. That you like it is not even close to enough. If they want to have some nice bright yellow san-serif script face on some white shiny paper then tell them nicely that while you respect their opinion research has shown that black serif type on white with a nice shade of ten percent cyan in the BG gives optimum readability. And that script faces are a no no for body copy. If they persist then tell them that you are not willing to design for them because the design they want will not work and will tarnish your name.
As with everting like this, once you have learnt the rules then you can break them to suite your needs. As long as you are aware of the effect and can control it.
Designers often design for themselves. This is a big mistake. Unless you are selling to designers then you are doing the wrong thing. Going with the latest trends that you see everywhere on the net is useless. There are so many sites that look exactly the same. Mindless regurgitation. Simply because it�s hip.
Blah�..I�ll shut up

On to the question

dr . bang- It really depends on what you like doing. The things you have mentioned are very different. They are all loosely based around design and creativity. And while you will not learn any skills that will not help you in pursuing this sort of career (design/creativity). You will waste a lot of time doing stuff that you won�t use. For instance if you do web design you will learn programs that you may no use unless you become a web designer. Graphic design you will probably learn a lot of print stuff that will only be useful in that specific field. Most probably theses skills will have a very limited shelf life as well. Technology moves too fast for you to waste a few years learning stuff that you will never use. Even if you come back to it later things will be different. ID and the bottom one, which sounds to me like conceptual design, are more about drawing. You will do a very limited amount of drawing in the top two. Everything is �graphic� not Illustrative. Very different when you are in the thick of it all.
Decide what it is that you want to be doing. If you feel that you can�t go a week without drawing then forget graphic design.
Good/Bad is based on perception. What would be a nightmare for me may be a walk in the park for you (heh I should mention I�m no pro so I shouldn�t even be replying). I don�t think any opinion from anyone is going to get you anywhere. People do all of these jobs and like them. People also do all these jobs and hate them. It depends on what you want to do. The bad things about Graphic design for me are that you don�t do any drawing and I need to draw. I don�t like going too graphic. And there is a lot of technical stuff to deal with. I work freelance GD but I handle a lot of the technical and secretarial stuff within a two-person team. Even then I just want to draw. It also depends on whether you want to go freelance, or just work as a designer in a firm. Different things. You often have to compromise your design to suite budget constraints. �Aww damn we can only go two colour�. I hate how when even if your design is good, if it prints badly then you get nailed anyway. Web design is a bit better in that you never have to deal with a lot of the technical stuff that goes with print. But then you have a whole different set of rules. If you are going freelance then you have to be able to handle technical stuff just as well as the design. Clients can be a bother but you are going to have some form of client in all the fields you mentioned.
As I said before it all depends on what you want to do, what kind of person you are etc.

Any more specific Qs just ask away

L8r

Ohh and if anyone wants to flame me for the stuff I said up top then go ahead but maybe make a new topic for it.

[PuckDewd]

-Plop- Webdesign doesn't pay much? Head on over to Monster.com and do a search for "Site Designer". I saw one in there a few weeks ago for a job in Montana starting at 150k per year with stock options and a company car. It all depends on where you go.
-Puck

[Plop]

PuckDewd, can you post the requirements for that job? I bet it wasnt just Photoshop and HTML. Clueless recruiters often call project managers and web programmers that, and those ppl get payed what you mentioned. Unless you work at rezn8 or zenimax or some other hot shot company its no more than $30 an hour most of the time.

[This message has been edited by Plop (edited September 03, 2000).]

[Plop]

doublepost

[This message has been edited by Plop (edited September 03, 2000).]

[dr . bang]

150 K for a web desginer? Thats a un heard of number for a web desginer to be, they probably pay that to your for the first year and then cut it in half by next year.

[Get-up Kid]

I can comment most on the Industrial Design end of things. I went to school for ID, and I had friends that were in the other fields. I can say that at least from my experience you get the most well-rounded exposure to many different medium as an ID student: Sketching, marker rendering, learning how to go about solving problems, 3D modeling, some web if you so choose, life drawing.
As far as working in the field, there are similarities that you are going to run into whenver you are getting paid to do art. You're going to have a client, and what they want is seldom what you want. That's just how it goes. When I worked and an Industrial Designer, my designs had to make it past the engineers and the marketing people. Sometimes these people would make decisions based on personal taste or reasons that were even more irritating.
Now I work in the web industry(not as a designer but as an illustrator) and it really isn't that much different as far as client attitude goes. People come to you for a service not really realizing what the service is all about or how much time is involved. Learning to deal successfully with clients is just as useful a skill as learning how to design.
If you have any other questions about industrial design, i'd be happy to share what I know. Just [email protected]

I know that was maybe a little long-winded, but I hope that helps...

[dr . bang]

Wow, thank you guys for replying to my question. It helped me alot! I have another small question, which one is better, working as a freelance or in a firm?

[Jenn]

I get bored doing web design. It gets so tedious and tiresome. Tho. I enjoy it more than if I was to do standard office work. Creating soemthing and having those ideas come into form.

Everything has its ups and downs..


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DarkChyld

[Darkmoon]

man... i need pointers on freelancing cause... i cant do it, maybe my self esteem is to low? how do i get myself out there and into that kinda stuff... school is kinda out of the question right now....

-Lisa

[PuckDewd]

Plop, I think that job posting required at least 5 years experience and extensive knowledge of Photoshop, HTML, Illustrator and Flash. But, you have to think, for them to get really good talent to MOVE to Montana, they have to offer some incentives. I wasn't trying to state this pay as the norm, just to point out that the money is out there if you..a. Have alot of experience and b. are willing to move to a state with nothing but cattle and fields. Average pay (with a company not doing freelance) is anywhere from 35k to 80k per year depending on experience and talent.

[dEATH.Tool]

Rinaldo and everyone pretty much summed it up! I don't work as any of the above...I work as a character designer and conceptual artist at times, but the key factor is basicly the same. It matters not what you decide....reality is that if you plan to make a career out of any of it you will be working for someone else! And at times things will get hard and times worse, but there will be plenty times you'll be glad just to be doing what you love! I have plenty visions that I feel are very creative, and from timt to time clients will come and ask me to change my "1000 wire bone crushing, radar homicide cyborg" into "Sonic the Hedgehog"....not literally. Point is....find you a niche in whatever you do....don't do it because you want to be a big name....rather do it because you love it! Sooner or later you may get to the position where you have enough to show that people just trust you judgements! LuCk!

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.life without fear is the perfect nightmare.

[Plop]

PuckDewd, there had to be a catch
Experience and talent would definetly pay off in webdesign, but with other opportunities such as programming, or managment you could have the same experience and make those money living in California. Me and my buddy started out 2 and a half years ago in the same company together, i did web design, he worked his way into managing a couple of design grunts along with me. He just scored a 120k a year position as a development manager in Malibu.

I guess you gotta love all that comes with webdesign, to excell in it. And guys who are really good at it, already did it in some form before rest of us knew wth internet is, so they dont come around asking if they should try it.

[Wrath]

I agree with Jenn. I am a graphic designer for a local webservice, and I can't explain how bored I am. I haven't even started college yet, and I'm pretty much in the same boat with the Doctor.

[Jorge]

IMHO, if your intention is to get rich having a job related to creativity, either you are the best or just forget it. Go creative if you are one that wants to come true when working and can put with earning enough to live. Some people prefer having a job just to earn money and come true in their spare time (friends, family...) I think it is a valid option, well, not so much an option but a way of being.

I worked as a web designer. As someone said the job of a designer is to interface with the client. You do not design for yourself but others ask you to come up with something graphical that empathises with their philosophy. Until that point I think the concept is still great, even though you always work on other's ideas.

I quit the job of webdesigner because of boredom. My main problem regarding clients is that the concept above did not quite work well. The client should put their phylosophy and I had to render it. But clients usually just looked for someone to put in the screen what they had already designed. They did not ask me to design but just came in and said "Well, I've been thinking about adding this big, red, animated sun in the middle of the screen..." Every client came in that way, and I just did not want to do that.

Of course I worked for small and medium business, who do not usually have an internal marketing department or quite a clear self-image, so they when asked about the message and purpose of the to-be website, they did not really know what to answer. Probably if you work in a hyper uber top of the top GD company you'll have more serious clients in that aspect, or if you are a free-lance and have quite a good stock of clients you can turn down the ones you do not like to work with.

Still I think in whatever creative job you have you will always, always, always have people trying to do their job and some of yours in the way. And if you just want to create for yourself, study for being an economist and paint in your spare time.

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Jorge

[WacoMonkey]

The whole thing seems like a specious question. What do you WANT to do? What is your dream? What do you think will be fun? Is your passion movies? Or games? Or manipulating information technology to do cool things? Or the magical power of words and images? Or the sensual appeal of consumer products? What is it that motivates you? Figure that out and then I can tell you what program to follow to get there.