[AliasMoze]

Sorry, had to get your attention.
A while back you mentioned some good drafting/industrial design volumes to me, and I've forgotten the name. Do you remember? I was searching for a while but couldn't find them. I want to take another shot at it.

If Francis is listening and he knows some good books, I'd love to hear his recommendations.

thanks, bros.

[Fred Flick Stone]

Engineering Drawing and Geometry by
Hoelscher and Springer. There are two different volumes.
Another absolute must, more than that first book is Design Rendering Techniques-A guide to drawing and presenting design ideas by Dick Powell.
And Creative Marker Tecniques-a japanese book, but has some very useful info.
The second one would be my first choice. Let me know if you find them.

[Francis]

Are you talking about 2d and isometric line drafting type stuff, or architectural and industrial design, perspective rendering techniques?

If it's the first, I will have to do some research and look through some old textbooks. It it's the second, Fred's recommendations are pretty good.

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Francis Tsai
TeamGT Studios

[AliasMoze]

Thanks, Fred.
Engineering Drawing and Geometry seems not to exist. I'll keep looking.
Design Rendering Techniques is out of print, but I think I may be able to get it.
I found the marker rendering book; getting that one.

Again, thanks. I'll let you know how it goes with the others.

[AliasMoze]

Francis,
I'm looking for both. Thanks for the help.

I'm interested in getting better acquainted with these subjects. I suck at that kind of thing.

It has crossed my mind to scan in the out-of-print books when I get them and output them as PDF's so I can share the info. A little copyright infringement, but I love great books, and I get mad when great ones aren't available.

[egerie]

Presentation Techniques is really interesting and has some crucial information. Some of it are slightly outdated but the basics are a must.
That "tonal rendering colour chart" reference is great IMO
Sorry to hear it's out of print.. bought my copy .. hm.. 3 years ago I think. But oh it was in Nairobi... lol Try to check in old dusty bookstores

eg
"un assassin est un cr�ateur qui n'a su trouver son emploi." Pennac

[Francis]

There's a contemporary architect named Frank Ching who has a series of books out on design drawing, graphics and principles of architecture. Those should be fairly easy to find, as they are reprinted pretty often.

My personal favorite of those books is called "Architecture: Form, Space and Order." All the graphics and text (at least in the earlier editions) is hand drawn and hand written, and is a very attractive book. It's more academic in terms of design, looking at architecture and talking about what goes into the design process, etc. Another book of his (I think it's called Architectural Graphics or something along those lines - it's a smaller book) goes into all the nuts and bolts 2d and isometric drawing stuff. All the books in that series are good, though.

I'll see what else I've got around or that I used in school.

------------------
Francis Tsai
TeamGT Studios

[AliasMoze]

Francis, thanks. I found both books on Amazon. Thanks for going out of your way.

Egerie, yeah, I think I can get that book somewhere, maybe online. Interesting signature, though I don't understand the meaning

[Fred Flick Stone]

ALias-another book was just handed to me, I think it is the book you are absolutely looking for. I am going to Xerox this book, it is 312 pages though so I am going to be a kinkos for a while, if you don�t mind paying for the copies I will get you a version too. I would run more than one off, but I value my time more than sitting at Kinkos for a week. But, while I run my copy off which to me is not wastig any time, I will knock out a second.

THe book is called Focus on Designing, by Vello Hubel and Diedra B. Lussow. Wacomonkey handed it to me, it was his design bible in ID. Thumbing through it I can tell you that this is more than likely what you are looking for. A few chapters include Looking at Things and Ideas-Change-Evolution and Innovation, Space, Form,Structure, Visual Organization, etc.

It covers it all. I have always looked for a book like this, and here it is.

Those books Francis mentions are excellent books for designing in the architectural sense, they are also incredibly worthy�

Let me know what you want to do, and again, happy hunting�

[Farwalker]

Great post and responses all.

Moze that would be awesome of you.
Would love to read a Loomis book.

I am like you and love getting new art books at my door from amazon

Wow Fred, quite cool of you to do that for Moze. What a top notch art teacher you must be. Such devotion in helping others with art.
Thank you for all your helpful post and inspiring artwork.
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www.gamingvault.com

[This message has been edited by Farwalker (edited August 29, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by Farwalker (edited August 29, 2000).]

[Fred Flick Stone]

Alias, funny, I am doing the same thing. I am in dire need of time, but we have an 11 x 17 scanner and I can get two pages at a time. It is just freakin time consuming. What I plan on doing is scanning all the loomis books, and have them available to zip, but I want to put them on cd, and possibly sell the cds for a few bucks, and have some updated tutorial stuff on them to help out the digi artists understand the translations a bit, from line art to full volume photoshop treatment or what ever. Glad to see others doing this...

[Farwalker]

Just tell me where to send the check for the cd when its done Fred
One for me and my bro.

What a cool idea...


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www.gamingvault.com

[AliasMoze]

Fred, it is indeed time consuming. My pages are brown for one thing. Crud and notes are everywhere. I'm not planning on making money off of "Fun With a Pencil." I'm going to put together an acrobat document and try to find someone here to host the file. It would be great if others did the same thing with their books, especially the out-of-print ones. Freeware art education, baby! Another thing I'd love to have is Glen Villppu's videos and books. Those videos are like $25 each, and there are lots of them. Their only 60 minutes too, which sounds like a ripoff.

I'd definitely pay for yours though, any good books I don't have. Keep us abreast.

Hehe, I said "abreast."

[zayats]

Hey AliasMoze -

I have Vilppu's "Drawing Manual".
Got it at Hennessey & Ingalls in Santa Monica.
39 bucks, but worth it.
I think it's one of the best books on figure drawing I've ever seen (and I've seen lots).

I'm pretty sure the whole book is reprinted one chapter at a time, every other month in the back issues of Animation World (online) Magazine.
Go here: http://www2.awn.com/studentcorner/
and do a "search resources" for "Vilppu".

You can also download entire issues of the magazine in Acrobat format.

[Dean Welsh]

I think I'm gonna buy some books here too.

I have a couple of really great bookstores in town. And I'm wondering if someone would be kind enough to get the ISBN numbers off some of the suggested books for me. It just makes it that much easier to find it for me if you don't mind taking the time out?

[AliasMoze]

Zayats, cool. You CA mofos have all the cool stuff. I didn't realize you could download the whold thing. Still, I'd rather have the book (sitting in bed, sitting on the can, etc.). I'll probably get them. Unless you have a scanner

Dean, good idea.

[ozenzo]

Yo AliasMoze....found that book for you..so I expect a finders fee ..of say...10%
Just kidding. There are several used book stores that have the book.... go to
www.bookfinder.com or try thisbook list you have several choices there! so good luck

bookfinder.com will usually find just about any book...check it out

[This message has been edited by ozenzo (edited August 29, 2000).]

[Fred Flick Stone]

Alais-if you want, I will xerox off villpus book for you too. It is worth it, in fact, I will send you my xerox copy now that I have an official book. I don't know why I bought a real copy, the xerox version is the same...got greedy I guess, let me know if you bought it already or not...

[samdragon]

hmmm, I will be here untill the end of time if I try to scan "creative illustration" by loomis.
I read that book every night before i go to bed, I can't imagine life without it.
I may be able to scan in some of the highlights and examples, or if Fred has it, we could split the book and do halves or something.

Hey Fred are you serrious about putting this stuff on a cdrom? You would do more than make a "couple of bucks"

As I understand it, creative illustration will never be in print again, is that right?
If that's the case..we'll have to do something about that.

[AliasMoze]

Yeah. I like the direction all this is headed.

Fred, I do want the xerox. Just let me know what you need. I may buy a copy, but until then it'd be good to have. If I buy the book, I'll give the xerox to someone else.

Ozenzo, thanks man. I'll check it out in the morning. You rock.

Samdragon, scan that biotch! Don't deprive us of our Loomis.

[burn0ut]

this is great its like warez'in books! heheh but in a good way!
hey id love to buy a cdrom with artbooks on em!
this could be great ;D

[AliasMoze]

Fred,
Sure. Just e-mail me privately your address, and I'll get you out a check or whatever you need. I'll gladly compensate you for your time too. This is so cool; I freaking love books. The more technical, the better.

BTW, I'm slowly scanning "Fun With a Pencil" for the forum. It's taking a while, because my copy is pretty ragged and my scanner is slow, so I'm doing a few pages at a time. I have to then clean up every page a little. But the books is great and holds a great deal of sentimental value for me (my first art book). I think Samdragon has other Loomis books; maybe he'll do the same

Hope nobody minds me doing this. The books has been out of print for some time and the author is deceased. So it's not costing anyone anything.

[burn0ut]

hehe alias please do!!

ive scaned a few pages of legs from bridgmans 'constructive anatomy' for my friend awhile ago, but never posted them here... uhm.. hmm okay mabye ill post em when someone ask's about legs

[ozenzo]

Yeah it all sounds good, but try scanning one of them...takes forever....and then there's the legality of it. That's if you're planning on selling it. I would buy one as well. It would be nice to have a backup of all the Loomis books. It wouldn't be so bad if they would reprint them. Then it would be available to everybody. Anybody know of a program that you can scan in an image and convert it to pdf?
Well I'm in if there's anything I can do to help out let me know.

[AliasMoze]

Thanks, everyone, for the book recommendations. I've found and purchased almost everything suggested here.

My digital restoration of "Fun With a Pencil" is still going. I hope to be done by the end of the weekend. Will post it when done.

[AliasMoze]

Ozenzo, I have an Acrobat writer that works with MS Word. I think I can also do it with Illustrator, though it's much more tedious.

[Jorge]

Hey ppl, I unfortunately am unemployed now, so cannot do what every living soul would want and buy all those yummy books. On the Acrobat thingy though, I can make .pdf from whatever program, so if I can help (and get one of those books in the way... )