[Fred Flick Stone]

Sorry to start up another thread. I am trying to get the first image to laod up on the forum, and now I can't get back into the figure drawing thread. I keep getting the "this page can not be accessed" warning banner...why oh why is this so difficult...

Again, I apologize for the thread space...

[This message has been edited by Fred Flick Stone (edited August 22, 2000).]

[Fred Flick Stone]

I give up, that first image does not want to open...grrrrrrr



again...

[This message has been edited by Fred Flick Stone (edited August 22, 2000).]

[Anthony]

Very very nice. I wish you'd post a good version of the first one though. You know, without the lines. Anyhoo, great as always!

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-Anthony
Carpe Carpem

[ozenzo]

fantastic art Fred..wish I had spent that much time painting you blow me away Fred!!


[This message has been edited by ozenzo (edited August 23, 2000).]

[Joachim]

Totally kickass Fred !

Man you have done a lot. I wish I did all of those. Ofh, I need to start drawing more, night, day, evenings, mornings, all the time.



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Joachim
web:
http://home.online.no/~j-barrum/

[Gambit]

Awesome Fred Your stuff is always a joy to look at. Thanks for posting your art!




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Gamingvault.com

[micke]

Fantastic work, Fred!

-Mikael

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-Mikael Noguchi-

http://www.katode.org/noguchi/

[Jeezus]

you
are
really
good,
fred

the figure drawings are flawless to my eyes..
i especially like the trumpet guy and those first 2 oils.

[Farwalker]

Unbelieveable...

Great work Fred!
Can I gain anymore respect for you?
It rocks to have you on this board.

Keep posting!

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www.gamingvault.com

[Fred Flick Stone]

WOW...BIG THANK YOU's. The things said here, wow...you guys are too kind. And thank you, I am very glad to be a part of this board. I would rather be doing this than going out and wasting money. I did that for too long, now its time to create...and have that happy place to go to with other artists...no, not heroin...this forum...this forum is my heroin

Oz-I am looking into the history of the Rielley technique.

As far as the technique goes, it was invented for the illustrator. Back in the day, photos weren't really considered a useful medium for magazines and such, because the printing process could not accurately reproduce the photos for print purpose. The Rielley technique, which Fred Fixler brought to the west coast was the illustrators friend. THe abstraction was created, much like spooges theories on light and dark, for inventing real convincing humans, that can then be embellished with a live model if necessary.


These are the abstractions. There is one for the head and one for the figure. THere is also one that cannot exist in print, it is abstracting the big pose. THe same thing applies to that as these sheets, only that every pose we put ourselves into will have its own set of abstractions. It is up to you the artist to find them and draw the ones that work for your image you are creating.

The abstraction is a cheat guide for inventing convincing figures. Once the figure is placed or designed into the illustration, the Rielley technique again jumps into play. There is a specific palette used for the Rielley painting technique, the colors are print friendly to the printing presses in the 40s and 50s. Today, if the same palette is used, the images will look pasty compared to everything else in print. Much white is used, and is used for ramping the values of the colors, again, only for print. I would say that this technique would not serve a fine artist well, it is very formulaic. But for someone learning to draw the figure, this technique is golden.

I can elaborate more on the abstractions if you guys want, just let me know. I have been working and teaching all day and my head hurts so I don't want to write too much more...

But like I said, if any of you want me to break these abstractions down for you, I can do it in another thread and I don't mind doing it, just need a little sleep first...

bye

[ozenzo]

Any light you could shed on this subjest would be greatly appreciated!! Don't rush it or anything, just when you have the time we know you're busy...relax a little and start posting some more Fred creations as well.....I'm loving this stuff!!

[silber]

wow....wow.....wow...
thats all I can say when I see you pictures

the women with the snowboard
I LIKE this old style combined with
something ,,new'' like a snowboard -love it

the tiger on the right side reminds me
of a picture from Salvador Dali....dam
forgot the name of the pic.(:

so wish you a good night
bye



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-----silBer--

[AliasMoze]

Fred, I can see the influence of 40's/50's illustrators threaded throughout your work, much the same way I see Sargent's influence in Spooge's stuff.

I really like the cowboy in the top right. I like the cloth in the snowboard girl (would like to see it up close).

You guys have inspired me to look into Gouache. I'm leaning toward going out and buying some paints. I need something portable anyway...

Oh and great stuff!!

[AliasMoze]

Fred, I just caught the part about the Rielly technique. Could you elaborate on this? I've never heard of such a thing. Sounds fascinating, though. God, so many ways to draw people...

BTW, I saw the link for your school on another thread. You have a couple concept sketches that are totally kickass, a dwarf and a pirate ship. I am impressed as hell; those are sweet.

Thanks.

[Chapel]

Please elaborate Fred. This technique sounds really interesting.

[yoszi]

Fred: Wow, you've got some observation skills.. I've got a question - I'm not too familiar with art materials. Is there any paper of higher quality with surface similar to newsprint ? Something thicker with the same smoothness. Thnx.

[Fred Flick Stone]

Thanks guys. I am glad that I can be of help. I never got it, and always wanted it. I know there are other kids and people like me who want info, if I have any to give, I do and will. Just my nature.

Alias-did you see that I responded to that rythym drawing, I think it was called? Are you still inquisitive to that? I still want to know what you were askig about a little more clearly, sounds interesting, and familiar, I think whatever it is is called something else, but ehatever.

Oh yeah, I will elaborate more on this abstraction, its just gonna take some serious jawwing to get it all out on paper. I don't use this thing much anymore, so I will have to do some recall...it will be a small task to accomplish, but it is really helpful to inventing figures convincingly, and help the model drawing you are currently working on from life. Very helpful tool. OOps, 1 oclock, gotta get back to the grind.

Waldo-cant wait to see you around the school next semester...glad to see an enthuseist making the pilgrimidge. I did that forever with Steve Hustons school, and the other LA schools. Gotta learn, do whatever it takes, acquire, and execute...and overall, have a fun time doing it...

[burn0ut]

what age did you start life drawing fred/micke/joch/sp00ge?

i think id feel out of place at 18 heh.

[Jorge]

Please Fred, yes, expand on the abstractions. I took my first figure drawing class ever about 3 months ago. It was 50 hours although I confess I probably did around 40, I was always late

It turned out really difficult. Really, I prefer not to post anything yet on it. Maybe I'll do when I can say "Hey, look at the absolute crap I used to do, not like nowadays". I had never done anything on anatomy (besides some science class in high school, most of which I can't remember, and definitely no art class of whatever related to the human body). And the class was not really a class, but just a way to have a model, the teacher just wandered through us giving little pieces of advice but did not really give any bases to start or specific part's studies like I find here.

I am joining a figure drawing class at the beginning of this next year again, full year now if it does not conflict with job (if I have any at the time ), so this would be tremendously helpful. (The classes are really cheap, so I do not expect any worthy teaching again, it is just a way to be able to draw standing nude models).

PS: It was due to my lack of anatomy knowledge that I asked the people's opinion on importance of scientific anatomy knowledge (muscles, bones... ) for figure drawing, but no one answered

[This message has been edited by Jorge (edited August 25, 2000).]

[Fred Flick Stone]

Jorge-I didn�t see that thread on the anatomy question. I kinda rip through the forum quickly during the day between renders or illustrations, sometimes I completely miss things I probably should have caught attention to.
IMHO, I don�t think that true scientific anatomy is absolutely necessary to get pleasing results. Look at Ingress. He had no anatomical training, but his figures from life are truly gorgeous. Now, his made up work shows his deficiencies in the study of the figure under the surface,but the rest of the body of his work is truly genius.
I believe that possibly in todays times, people have much more to look at, al the time. If you are going to try and convince these people of what you are painting or drawing that you do it with an insightful knowledge base of what it is you are working with, subject wise. Whether this means reading up on it prior to working with it, or have gone to school to understand it thoroughly, it alwys helps to have some understanding of what it is you are about to embark on.
I for one would like to see artists who have passion for what they do, to find the right way to do it, the proper schooling base. But I don�t condone anyone for what little they have within the realms of art, or how much they have. I do get irked by listening to people say that classic training is counter productive to the forward progression of the art movement in general. This is a big contradiction. You can�t better something without it having a solid base to start from, otherwise you are constantly reinventing the wheel. And there are plenty of people who still say this�funny people�

I will get on the explanation of this abstraction on Saturday. Till then, have fun�
Ron

[AliasMoze]

Burnout, I did my first serious life drawing at 18. Not sure if you mean that you're too old, but certainly not. I was decent when I was 18 but with no serious training. You need to figure draw from life; that's a certainty.

Jorge, you wouldn't be the first person in history to have trouble with the human figure, so please don't beat yourself up. The human figure is at the same time (a) the thing that interests humans the most and (b) the thing humans are most familiar with. It's therefore necessary to draw but difficult because everyone knows when a drawing is wrong

Fred, it sounds so CA newwave to me , ya know. But I thought it was cool the way the lines created shapes that divide up the measurements pretty accurately. I don't use a ton of modeling lines anymore though. But I'd certainly try some drawings with the abstraction. As far as the rhythm of application thing, I'll gather my thoughts and ask again. Another simply subject Thanks! Enjoy zee veekend.

[Jorge]

Fred, my english is not the best so I do not know if I understood you right. But your post sounded to me like 1)Ingress might not know scientific anatomy a lot, but you at least have a grasp on it 2)Knowing muscles might not be absolutely necessary, but it helps a lot 3)You are telling me not to pity myself and get my ass moving .

OK, maybe I sounded too dramatic. I liked my drawings, it was the first time I did that and they sucked, yet they looked human figure drawings and I learned a lot just from myself (not to mention from having people next to me drawing too). But I too see myself having studied something later on I realized I did not like, but because of the enviroment (and ultimately *myself*, I like comfortable life too much) I did not change that. This is not a psychology session, so that is it, but I'll end up saying that I am indeed decided to have fun, that's why I read this forum, do that cube excercise, dribble with you all (and with me a bit ) and make my wacom spit smoke. Thanks for all your time people.

[Fred Flick Stone]

Here are a couple more pages of stuff.

And, I am doing a cheesy self promo, but, for the next Myst Exile game, I designed this creature in it called a Squee. It is in the trailer. Well, the design, this one in particular is on a T-shirt. It can be ordered on the Myst Exile website. Not that this is something you all want to run out and get, but I am pretty stoked on this one. I can�t believe they printed the art on the back as big as they did. It is at least 12-14 inches wide, really big�One of the few shirts I have done that I will wear�

Hopefully I will get you guys this abstraction explanation asap�have a day�

[micke]

Your work is just so good...

[AliasMoze]

Got another question for you, Fred.
First, that stuff is really nice. Second, your quicksketches have a style to them that is very different from quicksketches as I know them. That is, I've noticed you use tone as much as line in your gestures. I'm curious, is that something that's a part of your school?

[Gonad]

holy crap.

heh...my favorites are the accordion player and the guy next to him.

do you have those in any larger resolution so i can check out the details????

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PS: You rock my world.

[immi]

Fred, as usual, your drawings are awesome. I've begun to notice something though, not sure if anybody else sees this. I notice your chins/jaws seem to be very prominent, and angular.

Anybody else see this, or did i forget to take my medication again?

[Fred Flick Stone]

Immi-thank you for the comment. I have been waiting for something like this. I never noticed but you are right. I need to keep an eye on this. Thanks again. Oh, and I am close to finished with that tut. Only need to get all the pics either done, and/or accumulated in the same place.

Alias-I have seen this sort of thing done before, but it has mutated from person to person. Jeff Watts has developed a style that is solely based upon musculature and interesting caligraphy, I go for the big general shapes and forms, and if there is any time left, I sculpt out the muscles. I am seeing more 3 D with the sculpting class that I am taking, helping me tremendously. I try and mutate all the styles I see, so that at any moment, depending upon the situation, I can use one or the other based upon which gets the immediate results in a fast and accurate way, hopefully with a bit of sponteneity. Howz that for a run on sentence.
Thank you again everyone else for the kind words...

[Fred Flick Stone]

Gonad-here you go...



My retarded photography. They are both a tad out of focus. Sorry...

[This message has been edited by Fred Flick Stone (edited August 25, 2000).]

[Waldo]

Fred,
Your work along with the other notable notables in this forum are a true inspiration to us all. I've been lurking around this forum for some time and viewing all of this great artwork combined with the feedback and information that you all provide has been a real kick in the head. It has jarred loose some creativity that has lain dormant far too long. I would also like to thank you for responding to my e-mail last week and your kind words concerning my work. I feel quite fortunate to live near Watts Atelier and will be signing up for the next round of classes. I had a long and informative conversation with Jeff Watts last week and his willingness, along with yours to help any and all, is invaluable. The two of you along with Erik and the rest of the faculty comprise an impressive group. I encourage all of you that also lurk this forum that if any opportunity to get good quality art instruction arises, jump at it. I grew up in small rural towns long before the digital age and good instruction and resources were difficult to come by...

O.k., now that I've kissed enough...

Where are my pencils?

Cheers!